Intro

On the podcast I talk with Lucy and Nicole about how customer-driven iteration led Zumba from VHS tapes in 2001 to launching an app in 2024, their app2web experiments that boosted LTV by 17%, and how they are able to charge for content when countless Zumba classes are available for free on YouTube.

Top Takeaways:

🗣️ Listening has driven 24 years of product evolution

Every Zumba breakthrough — from instructor certifications born out of VHS buyer calls, to an app tailored for shy beginners — came directly from customer insights. The roadmap is data-led, not intuition-driven, ensuring they're always building what users genuinely want.

🎯 Subscribers pay for structured programs, not endless content

Zumba realized users were overwhelmed by free YouTube videos. By creating curated, goal-oriented programs, subscribers now watch twice as many videos and retention doubled. People will pay for guidance and curation — not just more content.

🚀 Your growth ceiling depends on beginner retention

With 70% of new users identifying as beginners, Zumba redesigned onboarding and UX to quickly move them toward completing three classes. Annual-plan signups reached 60%, and churn dropped dramatically. Early milestones for beginners unlock long-term growth.

🌐 Web checkout can lower conversion yet raise revenue

Zumba shifted paywall taps to a simplified web checkout with Apple Pay and Google Pay. Immediate conversions dropped 25%, but higher annual plans, better retention, and no store fees drove a 17% lift in LTV. Optimize for long-term value, not just instant conversions.

🔁 Speed of iteration beats legacy processes every time

Zumba’s lean, agile team tests and pivots relentlessly — from paywall pricing to removing unsuccessful features. Daily checks in Mixpanel dictate what scales or what’s cut. Moving quickly and iterating beats established practices and keeps growth steady.

About Nicole Page & Lucy Levy:

📱 Nicole Page is Senior Product Manager at Zumba, leading app development with a focus on user research and fast iteration. From onboarding experiments to web-first paywalls, she brings a data-driven mindset to every launch.

💡 “Every launch is a hypothesis we’re testing, and we’re never afraid to pivot if the numbers tell us to.”

👋 Nicole

🚀 Lucy Levy is Chief Consumer Officer at Zumba, guiding the brand from VHS to app, boosting LTV 17% along the way with innovative strategies and beginner-focused design.

🌍 Together, they’re modernizing Zumba’s global community.

👋 Lucy

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• David Barnard - @drbarnard
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Episode Highlights:

[00:02:44] From VHS to app store: How three Albertos turned dance fitness into a global brand.

[00:06:26] Community is the product: Why Zumba built its business around instructors, not just workouts.

[00:11:01] Research at scale: How hundreds of interviews revealed why “The Shy Beginner” is their most important user.

[00:14:30] Better churn than never: Why people leaving the app for live classes still counts as a win.

[00:15:54] Can’t compete with free? Yes you can: The Zumba app’s curated programs outperform YouTube.

[00:17:25] Double the value: Adding structured programs led to twice the content engagement and better retention.

[00:20:04] Cracking community: Why their first chat-based social feature failed and what they’re planning next.

[00:22:56] Test everything: Zumba’s app team operates with a growth mindset inside a 24-year-old company.

[00:25:22] Data before breakfast: Why daily Mixpanel check-ins drive fast iteration and culture change.

[00:26:09] App-to-web win: How a 25% drop in conversion still led to a 17% lift in LTV.

[00:30:19] Checkout optimization: Using Stripe, Apple Pay, and Google Pay to simplify the paywall experience.

[00:35:07] Push, don’t annoy: The team’s smart notification timing strategy based on user habits.

[00:38:44] Beginner, please: 75% of users identify as new to fitness, so the app is built just for them.

[00:39:01] Add friction, raise conversion: How a longer onboarding flow improved paywall success.

[00:40:51] One class to hook them: Why Zumba offers just one free class before locking the app.

[00:43:25] Three’s the magic number: Users who complete three classes are much more likely to stick.

[00:44:56] No trial, no problem: Ditching the monthly trial increased upfront revenue and annual plan adoption.