You can't have a conversation with a book. They don't fight back most of the time. I mean, I find them more interesting because they make me think. That's why the conversations are more fascinating because I always go away thinking about things. And that is an author reading nonfiction books about his field. But he hasn't actually like used them. He's looked at him and gone, okay, that's okay. It doesn't really give me anything. The fact that I can even say ecological dynamics without having to think, wait, what were those words again? Like, the amount of people I'm not a beginner in either ecological dynamic or human nature.