Keeping the Rebel Mindset

In the late 2000s, two French mountain athletes set out to build a running shoe that captured the feeling of flying. 

Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas “Nico” Mermoud had spent decades inside the innovation engine at Salomon—where product was obsession. In 2007, as Nico recovered from a brutal ultramarathon around Mont Blanc, the founders fixed on a problem that Big Footwear didn’t care about: downhill running was destroying bodies. Their solution: make the shoe bigger, softer, and shaped like a rocker.

At first, their prototypes looked like clown shoes. Runners who preferred minimalist footwear laughed at them. Retailers said no. But the founders kept doing the one thing that they knew could reverse things: they made people try them.

HOKA went from under $3M in sales in 2012 to more than $2B a year—and in this episode, you’ll hear how it happened: the risky design, the early cash crunch, and the strategic partnership that helped them win the U.S. market.

What you’ll learn:

• How to think of a shoe as a machine, not just a piece of apparel
• The go-to-market weapon that worked: relentless demo-ing 
• Why outside money can’t always solve a cash flow bottleneck (and what does)
• How HOKA used performance proof to avoid being dismissed as a gimmick
• Why HOKA partnered with Deckers—and why it wasn’t just about capital
• How to keep a “rebel” mindset as competitors start copying you

Timestamps:

(Timecodes are approximate and may shift depending on platform.)

• [07:12] George Salomon’s leadership lesson: the CEO who sought advice from an intern
• [11:11] Nico’s first day at Salomon: testing ski prototypes on a glacier
• [18:42] The ultramarathon race where Nico’s legs crumbled (and why)
• [21:29] A breakthrough insight: performance changes with surface (leaves, lava, snow)
• [31:25] Designing a sneaker as if it were a car: engine, tires, seat
• [40:00] The “clown shoe” prototype—and the first successful run 
• [47:22] Elite runners kickstart the brand 
• [49:02] The hard part nobody glamorizes: factory minimums, bank demands, anemic cash flow
• [53:31] Deckers enters: the minority investment that unlocks the U.S. (without killing the brand)

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This episode was produced and researched by Rommel Wood with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.

It was edited by Neva Grant. 

Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Kwesi Lee. 

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.