Smuggling is often portrayed as a shadowy threat to state authority — a world of criminals, traffickers, and dangerous border crossings. But in many parts of North Africa, smuggling is a fundamental part of the political economy. It sustains livelihoods, shapes state–society relations, and reveals how power actually works at the margins.

In this episode, Dan Banik speaks with political scientist Max Gallien about his acclaimed new book, Smugglers and the State: Negotiating the Maghreb at Its Margins. Drawing on extensive fieldwork in Tunisia and Morocco, Max shows how states do not simply fight smuggling. They regulate, tolerate, and sometimes rely on it. Together, Dan and Max unpack the “informal authoritarian bargains” that allow illegal and semi-legal economies to operate with the state’s active knowledge, and how these arrangements distribute opportunity, risk, and legitimacy in borderland communities.

The conversation explores why smuggling persists, how border closures and security interventions reshape local economies, and what all of this means for development policy at a time when fences and walls are rapidly multiplying.

Host:

Dan Banik

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X: @danbanik @GlobalDevPod

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