Buy vs Build and Vertical Integration

We’re excited to launch a very special edition of Valley of Depth, recorded live from the historic vault deep beneath the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). Going forward, we’ll be returning to the NYSE each month to host a series of conversations from the heart of global capital markets with the leaders building the next generation of critical infrastructure.

In this installment, we sit down with John Serafini, CEO of Hawkeye 360, a company quietly reshaping how governments see and understand the world. While many space companies focus on imagery or communications, Hawkeye 360 is doing something different: listening. By mapping radio-frequency emissions from orbit, the company is turning invisible signals into actionable intelligence, revealing patterns of human behavior that imagery alone can’t capture.

We discuss:

• How space-based RF mapping changes what “global transparency” actually means
• Why signals intelligence is uniquely tied to human activity and intent
• How Hawkeye’s multi-satellite architecture enables precise geolocation at scale
• What it takes to detect dark vessels, GPS jamming, and spoofing in near real time
• Why RF data, software, and proprietary signal libraries form a durable competitive moat
• How commercial SIGINT is becoming core infrastructure for governments globally

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:58 - What makes Hawkeye 360's satellites so special?
02:45 - Why is having RF capability important today
04:51 - What were the limitations of RF satellites before now?
06:38 - Why are there so few companies in the RF space?
08:35 - What Hawkeye is able to detect
13:46 - Satellites in a trio formation
17:21 - Fingerprinting points of interest
18:14 - What can Hawkeye 360 track?
21:33 - GPS jamming and spoofing
22:19 - How John got into this business
24:37 - Market size for RF capability
28:00 - Data licenses
30:56 - Next steps for Hawkeye's revisit rate
32:33 - China's capabilities
33:17 - Why did Hawkeye 360 acquire Innovative Signal Analysis (ISA)?
34:28 - Buy vs build
36:43 - John's stance on datacenters in space
37:55 - Investor confidence around Hawkeye
39:50 - The impact of SpaceX going public
42:02 - Is 2026 the year Hawkeye goes public?
44:59 - Will countries start building RF shields?
45:39 - Ultimate goal of Hawkeye

• Show notes •

Hawkeye’s website — https://www.he360.com/
Hawkeye’s socials — https://x.com/hawkeye360
Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com