Heiser: Helpful Yet Controversial

Can theological debates destroy Christian unity? In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we sit down with Jon Moffitt (Theocast) and Doug Van Dorn (Reformed Fringe) to discuss one of the more controversial splits in the Reformed world—and what it reveals about how we handle disagreement in the body of Christ. 

Jon and Doug open up about their journey exploring the spiritual realm, the divine council, and the angel of the Lord—topics that sparked fierce opposition within their own theological circles. What began as thoughtful biblical exploration turned into accusations of heresy, demands for public repentance, and ultimately, painful separation from longtime friends and ministry partners.

This isn't just another theology debate. It's a sobering look at how pride, fear, and miscommunication can fracture Christian unity, even among believers who share the same core convictions. Jon and Doug discuss the Grace Reformed Network controversy, the role of Michael Heiser's work in Reformed circles, and why talking about angels and spiritual warfare became so divisive.

We dive deep into questions that matter: How should Christians handle theological disagreements? When does doctrinal clarity become doctrinal gatekeeping? And how do we fight for truth without destroying the very unity Christ prayed for ?

Whether you're Reformed, charismatic, or somewhere in between, this conversation offers crucial lessons about humility, spiritual warfare, and the cost of standing for what you believe. The real enemy isn't the brother who disagrees with you—it's the one who wants to see the church divided.

Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller, Jon Moffitt, and Doug Van Dorn for a conversation about Christian theology, biblical interpretation, spiritual warfare, church unity, and what happens when good men disagree.

0:00 – Introduction
7:12 – The (Reformed) Fringe podcast
12:43 – Heiser, the Divine Council, & pushback 
20:11 – Online debates, slander, & controversy
31:05 – Strawmanning & accusations of heresy
43:06 – Internal concerns & pressure to shut down Fringe
50:04 – Email ultimatum
56:02 – Board letters, Jon & Doug’s clarifying response
1:02:24 – Doug’s theology of the Angel of the Lord
1:13:35 – How GRN handled Doug’s old paper & calls for due process
1:19:23 – Reflections on unity, charity, & spiritual warfare
1:23:28 – Closing

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