in that you know in that manifests in all the predictable ways and she does things constantly that frustrate me but there's never been a single second or i've been like yeah this is a being that deserves eternal conscious torment and hell um and it's just like so obvious to me that there are like she's developing creature she is she is trying to explore the world as an independent being but not totally independent like it's just like developmental psychology is a thing like there it just is a thing and it's so obvious to me and i think the obviousness of it to me like how lovable and good and funny and creative and beautiful she is like it's just so self-evident to me um that it has and then like the sort of like you know zooming out a bit it's like not only are those things evident to me but it is evident that any god worth calling god could never allow a being like her to be eternally tormented consciously and hell like god's like are you having some big feelings to me buddy no but it's just like so i mean it's just so obvious to me and it's actually it's actually i i mean i felt like i did a lot of work before i had my daughter like going like dealing with my the way i dealing with the way my parents raised me in a southern Baptist church right yeah and when i had her it brought a lot of things up again for me because i'm like

what the actual

how could you guys tell me week in and week out that like yes you are a sinner who is utterly depraved and is worthy of burning alive in a pit of fire for all of eternity separated from god and all good things unless you pray this particular prayer and it's just like a it's a very um i just can't think myself into that space i was talking to trip over lunch about this actually and how somebody posted online some like paragraph from a david betley heart book that was actually very gracious and compassionate and it's basically saying like listen there were needs that there are needs that people are filling by affirming something like a trial damnation right like it's a like that is an integral part of the most meaning making communities that those people have and they are um they there are reasons they have needed to believe those things those reasons have nothing to do with their like their love for you but it is there are reasons that people believe these things and we can recognize the social and communal role that those sorts of very destructive intense concepts have played um just like recognize that like a played a role we can let it go but i have actually really struggled with that like how could my parents like how could one sec for one second have my parents have thought that i could have burned alive in hell for all eternity and then like them have communicated that to me we can and wick out it's like that's a hard thing to get over but

i