The Power of Meaningful Dialogue in Personal and Collective Growth

Ep. 169 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.

Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.

“We have a responsibility to be our best self, our wise self, all the time… this is a good place to grow towards as an individual—and a necessary way to grow as a psychotherapist.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• Having an agreed-on, go-to technique for when problems arise (01:27)
• The defensive state wants to attack or flee, and the stories you tell yourself to justify attacking or fleeing (03:18)
• Distinguishing between constructive guidance and destructive shadow (04:32)
• Flexibility in couples therapy: going on instinct (07:52)
• Discourse and dialectic is a 21st century metapsychology (10:19)
• The developmental process of becoming more sensitive to when you’re “off” and also to when your relationship is “off” (12:36)
• A flourishing relationship is a liberation (15:05)
• Being a transpersonal therapist means you don’t take things personally (16:47)
• Therapist/client relationship is a major determinant of outcome (18:56)
• Growing toward being our best self all of the time is a good directionality (21:46) 
• The importance of telling the truth skillfully and compassionate understanding (23:29)
• The 6 foundational moral states we are born with get corrupted by defensive states (26:39)
• Radical acceptance: there is nothing I cannot share with my partner (29:44)
• Is forceful intervention ever necessary? Recovery from addiction comes before working on a relationship (32:52)
• Post-issue moments are our human birthright (42:31) 
• Looking for deeper truths about the human experience in conversations like this is enacting a 21st century metapsychology (43:04) 

Resources & References – Part 2

• Dr. Keith Witt’s website: https://drkeithwitt.com/
• Keith Witt, From Trauma and Transcendence (free eBook)
• Keith Witt, The Gift of Shame: Why We Need Shame and How To Use it To Love and Grow*
• Keith Witt, Waking Up: Psychotherapy as Art, Spirituality, and Science (free eBook)
• Helen Schucman, A Course of Miracles* (Foundation for Inner Peace)
• Keith Witt, Shadow Light: Illuminations at the Edge of Darkness*
• Keith Witt, Loving Completely: A Five Star Practice for Creating Great Relationships*
• Miyamoto Musashi, Book of Five Rings* 
• Roger Walsh, The Perennial Wisdom of A Course in Miracles: The Course and the Four Yogas
• Esther Perel: Your Guide to Relationship Intelligence
• Carl Rogers, Client-Centered Therapy: Its Current Practice, Implications, and Theory*
• Roberk Carkhuff, Seven Skills Summary (Primary Goals website)
• Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Dr. Keith Witt is a Licensed Psychologist, teacher, and author who has lived and worked in Santa Barbara since 1973. He has conducted over 75,000 therapy sessions and published ten books, including Loving Completely, Shadow Light, and Integral Mindfulness. His books Waking Up and Sessions were two of the first books on Integrally informed psychotherapy. In presentations and classes around the U.S. and internationally, Keith has explored love, therapy, interpersonal relationships, and development from multiple perspectives, weaving neuroscience, Integral theory, wisdom traditions, and numerous forms of psychotherapy into a coherent cosmology of love and healing.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell