Former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro is in a moment of reckoning.

In January 2023, after his election loss, thousands of his supporters attacked the presidential palace, the Supreme Court and the Congress as they protested an electoral defeat that Bolsonaro had baselessly attributed to electoral fraud. Now Bolsonaro is awaiting a criminal trial before the country’s Supreme Court for allegedly plotting to kill his rivals and stay in power. Bolsonaro is barred from running for office until 2030, and he could very well go to prison for decades.

Last week, U.S. President Donald Trump weighed in on Bolsonaro’s situation. He called the trial a “WITCH HUNT” on social media and in a letter to Brazilian leaders when announcing a 50 percent tariff on Brazilian goods.

Reporters Terrence McCoy and Marina Dias, who are based in Brazil, got a rare window into Bolsonaro’s thinking and his desire for a Trump intervention during a visit to his office this past spring. Today on the podcast, host Elahe Izadi sits down with McCoy and Dias, to learn what their visit revealed about Bolsonaro, about Latin America’s largest democracy and about the United States.

Today’s episode was produced by Elana Gordon with help from Sabby Robinson. It was edited by Peter Bresnan and Reena Flores. It was mixed by Sean Carter. Thanks to Jesse Mesner-Hage.

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