First you get the money, then you get the power. But FIRST first you get the law students. This week we're exploring the tentacles of the Federalist Society, and how a so-called debate club pulls levers across government, the legal profession, and academia, to achieve its conservative ideological goals.

Hear more from this episode's contributors:

Vanessa A. Bee is the author of HOME BOUND: An Uprooted Daughter’s Reflections on Belonging (Astra Publishing, 2022).

Andrea Bernstein's reporting with ProPublica and WNYC, about Leonard Leo, is available on On The Media's "We Don't Talk about Leonard" series.

Nancy Gertner is the author of In Defense of Women: Memoirs of an Unrepentant Advocate (Beacon Press, 2011).

Jon Hanson is the director of Harvard Law School's Systemic Justice Project, a problem-centric alternative to the traditional legal-educational mode.

Amanda Hollis-Brusky is the author of Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2014).

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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. This episode was fact-checked by Arielle Swedback. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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