The Importance of Vulnerability in Podcasting

Martin Spinelli, who you list as a podcast scholar can help us understand the context. He likes to tell this story that he got a phone call when he was quite young from Ira Glass from This American Life,. Would you like to come and join as a junior or whatever? And he said, no, it doesn't really sound like he's going to be my jaw is dropping if people can see. But yeah, so but now he now he teaches podcasting, he makes interesting podcast. Yeah, that's really interesting. And there's another, you mentioned the word vulnerability, which I think you were quoting the next clip I'd like to play in a way, or maybe