Is that right? No one book, every two point book. Ev, every two point four second. Io, think

it's very mpressd, i'd like to do two p

something or boks the second. That's a finite col righ, let's talk. So your new book, iis the infinite game. It's a great book. Ah, and you lay out someyu sort of take on two really major topics. One, you talk about how companies have to structure themselves and think about the futureand and what they are doing here as a way to a find employees and customers who love them, and companies that are going to outlast where we are to day. Two, as i think, you really take on modern capitalism. So i want to get into both, but let's start with the idea of the infinite game. Can you explain a little bit about what it takes to have an infinite mind set and why you think it so important? Sure.

So in

19 86, a philosopher by the name of james carsa theorized these two types of games, finite games. Finite games. A finite game is defined as known players, fixed rules and and agreed upon objective baseball, there is always tho beginning, middle and end, and the objective is to win. Then you have infinite games. Infinite games are defined as known and unknown players. The rules are changeable, which means you can play however you want, and the objective is to perpetuate the game. There is no such thing as winning in an infinite game because thereis no finished line.

We

are players in infinite games every day of our lives. There's no such thing as being number one in your marriage, like, good luck with that, you know. Ah. There's no such thing as winning global politicsand there's definitely no such thing as winning business. There are many players in business, but no one has declared the winner of business, not in any industry, ever. But

if we listen to the language of so many leaders, they don't actually know the game they're in. They

talk ot being number one, being the best, or beating their competition based

on what, based

on what agreed upon objectives, based upon what agreed upon time frames. And the problem is, is when we play in an infinite game like business, with a finite mind set, try to be number one, be the best, or beat our competition, there's a few very predictable and consistent outcomes, including the decline of trust, the decline of co operation and the decline of on, all of which contribute to the weakening of the organization andn its more likely demis you think all those come from having this finite mind set? I think a finite mind set dramatically increase the probability of those things happening. Absolutely yes.