Will We Run SaaS Apps Inside Codex?

Andrew Ambrosino leads development of the Codex desktop app at OpenAI. Nearly 100% of OpenAI employees—not just engineers—now use Codex weekly. A lifelong builder with a background spanning engineering, design, product management, and founding companies, he is now responsible for turning the Codex desktop experience into what he calls “the best desktop app that has ever existed, full stop.”

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. Why AI has completely flipped the product development process

2. What “taste” really means as a professional skill, and why it is emerging as the most valuable capability in an AI-first workplace

3. Why Andrew believes the Codex app would have failed if they launched it last November (vs. in February)

4. The “zone defense” model for how product managers at OpenAI operate when everyone can build anything

5. How roles are collapsed on Andrew’s team, and why eliminating the concept of roles entirely is a big mistake

6. How Andrew uses Codex to run his own workflows

7. The vision for a home base that coordinates work across ChatGPT, Codex, and the tools people already use.

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Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape

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Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

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Where to find Andrew Ambrosino:

• X: https://x.com/ajambrosino

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajambrosino

• Website: https://ambrosino.io

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Andrew Ambrosino

(02:30) How AI is changing the shape of product work

(06:32) When to use documents vs. prototypes

(10:25) What “taste” actually means

(12:06) Why AI is still bad at design

(16:18) Is the design process really dead?

(21:35) What the design process looks like on the Codex team

(23:41) Are product functions disappearing?

(27:22) Team structure

(30:12) IC vs. management

(31:37) Planning roadmaps

(35:16) Building features that don’t work yet

(38:13) The ambition problem: when you’re too AGI-pilled

(39:17) The latest frontier: loops and autonomous development

(52:05) How Andrew uses Codex to automate his entire job

(46:52) The power of computer use and browser automation

(49:10) Will we run all our SaaS apps inside Codex?

(52:05) The future vision for Codex

(57:20) The videographer who built a Premiere Pro extension with Codex

(59:30) Failure corner

(1:01:50) Lightning round

(1:07:03) BTS: How our producer uses Codex for editing

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References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.