I don't think that's a, I'll call that a non negotiable base just on what the, our biblical text tells

us. Well, thanks guys so with that, with that foundation in mind. It's also worth talking about the role of the preacher themselves in the preparation and presentation with their own individual personality and passions. It was Spurgeon who said preaching is proclamation proclamation through personality. So my question is, how do each of you conceive of your role in the preaching task and what's the balance between that and letting the text speak for itself. Michael, why don't we want you kick us off.

Yeah, I think it's an art more than a science in the space that's probably where I would start. I think I mean we're word based individuals so we should always be starting with the hermeneutic of what was the original author saying I know there's different types of views on that and I don't hope I'm not stepping too much into a hornet's nest but I think the clearest way to make sure that you're not getting off of of scripture is you at least you're starting with that as your foundation of what is the author trying to get off. I do think that there's a dialogical conversation between you and the text. I got this from my guest my seminary professor Dr. Linz. There's a theological framework that you see everything through just because of a cultural location you already there's there's the what the original writers said as between 2000 and further back and you're trying to get as close as you can but you know that you're coming at it from a certain place you try to get down there but then you the preachers looking out to more popularizers by definition our jobs to take the text and try to communicate it into out into the world I think there was a move when I was a preacher when you when you're young you're kind of just trying to say what you're trying to figure out what do I say what do I say I think you get to a new stage when you go away from what do I say and you're thinking more about how do I say it and how do I say it in a way that that moves through way first choose your major process you see and USA Paul doing the same thing right on Morris Hill you see him doing the same sort of how do I put this in a certain way to the r to 2 people based on who I'm talking to whether it's the Jews are the engineering tiles and so I feel like there's Thanks, Sam.

Yeah, I think another factor in addition to that is that the presence of outsiders in the congregation as well, sometimes part of what I'm doing in the sermon is breaking the ice between me and people who might be there for the first time. And so I'm not preaching myself in that moment, but I'm kind of introducing myself as the person who's wanting to preach Christ to them. So some, some preachers where I come from call that waggling on the tea, that kind of, you know, getting self all set up before you kind of get going. But I think there's a, there is a place for that, particularly when if we're regularly speaking to people who are there for the first time who are not regular churchgoers and who are wondering what on earth is going on in this building anyway, I want them to know that I'm, I live in the same world that they do. I see some of the same things that they do. I think humor can help to kind of bridge a bit of that gap. So there's a certain amount of that I think is necessary and healthy. A sermon I'm preaching should like sound like a sermon I've preached rather than a sermon somebody else has preached. But at the very same time, my hope is in five years time, they're remembering what was said in the sermon and can't quite remember who it was who said it. So when someone comes up to me, a church and says, I'll remember that sermon a few years ago, it was on this passage and we learned this, but I can't remember if you preached it or someone else preached it. And they're apologetic that they can't remember who preached it. I take that as a compliment. I'm glad they can't if it's a truth that's been remembered.

Yeah, yeah, that's helpful. But both of you started to enter into this space, but I wonder if we could just follow up on your actual process, one of the most common questions I get from members of my church all the time is simply what does your process look like?