The Importance of Offense

Join Simone and Malcolm as they delve into the fascinating world of emotions in this episode. Explore how they manage negative emotions, like anger, in their household with insightful strategies that can benefit everyone. Then, prepare for a deep dive into the intriguing emotion of humor, its different forms, and the contexts that trigger it. Based on their observations, particularly of their children, they have formulated a compelling theory on what makes things funny. Whether you're interested in understanding emotions better or seeking to improve your humor game, this conversation has something for everyone.The Transcript:

Simone: [00:00:00] And so one thing we talk about with our kids is like, does this make you feel good? And this is what we talk about with like negative emotions, right? Like, does it feel good to be angry? Does it make you more efficient to be angry? There are very, very few scenarios in which emotions like anger are going to make you more efficient or make you happier in the long run?

Simone: Maybe with something like grief, this could be different. I disagree. I think it's very rarely of utility. And so we talk through, okay, well if it doesn't make you happy, what can we do to get over it? And the, the core thing that gets over an emotion like that is, one, contextualizing it is not appropriate.

Simone: And two interrupting it. A lot of emotions are just bead cycles, like a can of Pringles. Once you pop you can't stop. And just about walking away from the Pringles having a glass of milk, so, our, our kid three, when he gets angry we're like, well, do you wanna keep being angry or do you wanna take a few breaths?

Simone: And so he'll go, no, I wanna, I wanna take a few breaths, and he'll go, and it helps it pass.

Simone: Hello, gorgeous. Hello, [00:01:00] Simone. Today we are going to talk about our little theories on how different emotions work, and I wanted to start with humor. Do you want to go in to our thesis on how the humor emotion works?

Malcolm: Yes. But first I have to credit you because you are the one who came up with this, and I think it's so endearing how you did it was all by observing our children and discovering what it was that made them laugh, which was really interesting.

Malcolm: Mm-hmm. So your, your theory and model of humor, which you were going to articulate better than me after I sum it up poorly, is that that, which is funny, is something that is surprising, but it makes sense.

Simone: Yes. And I think that there's two other types of humor that exists where comedians sometimes get trapped with them, but they're not actual humor.

Simone: One is a, I'm scared response. Mm-hmm. Which is really bad. But like a lot of, you, you get in, in really like tense situations where like you are socially scared or like actually threatened and like laughing to deescalate [00:02:00] to be like, ah, I'm not threatening. One, you see this in children.

Simone: But in adults as well. And I think a lot of comedians, they'll, they'll build these routines that are really like emotionally cringe because they see people laughing at them. But that is not, that is not like a pleasant laughter. I think for most people who experience it, obviously the human experience is really broad and, and these comedians are appealing to somebody.

Simone: , and, one is somebody is breaking social norms. Mm-hmm. And you are lacking cuz you're kind of threatened by the fact that to decrease tension kind of Yeah.

Simone: Where creates tension and, and people are breaking social norms. So, this other type of humor is one where you will be much more likely to laugh at almost anything somebody says if you're attracted to it.

Simone: Mm-hmm. So if you are attracted or aroused by somebody, you will just laugh at anything they say sometimes, and this is to, I, I guess, convince them. One, one of my favorite studies on this showed that both women and women said they appreciated a sense of humor in a partner. But for women, what that meant is that the person could make them laugh.

Simone: But with amendment by this is that the person laughed at their jokes and that's [00:03:00] what they, isn't that sweet? That's, I just found that so sweet. That's so cute. I don't it, it's sociopathic as, as. Uh, Okay. Anyway, but so the main type of humor, the type that you should be aiming for as a comedian is this makes sense within the context that has been built for me.

Simone: So in, in a, in a fictional world, you can build a fictional world where things deviate a along certain lines. An example here would be like SpongeBob square pants, right? Like that's a somewhat consistent fictional world with rules, right? And so something can make sense in that. Fictional context, but still be very surprising to you and thus cause you to to laugh.

Simone: Like you're like, oh, I didn't expect that, but it makes sense. And these are the best, the best types of, of, of humor with this is humor where it's like an idea. You're not supposed to think. And that's why it was surprising to you where you're like, Oh, oh my God.

Malcolm: What? Oh, so yeah, all the, all the cancelable, Netflix, such slash HBO comedy specials that involve, like people, shitting a brick because someone says [00:04:00] stuff they're not supposed to say.

Malcolm: It's humor. That's, that's surprising, but it makes sense because it's something that you're not allowed to say, but it's kind of true. And that's where that kind of humor comes from. Then there's

Simone: like workplace humor, that makes sense in context. Yeah. But you're not supposed to say that.

Simone: Mm-hmm. So it is surprised to me to hear that. Mm-hmm. But you can also subvert this, like you're going to say one thing, like the people think the joke, oh, I know where the joke's gonna end, and then you go in another direction. And that Right. Surprise, but makes sense in the other direction. It went in.

Simone: It's, it is funny. It's especially funny if it really makes sense for a character. Mm-hmm. So you can also do this with a character where a character is in a situation. Where you think oh, there's a generic way that people respond in this situation. Mm-hmm. But this character then responds in a different way that is surprising, but makes sense given the priors they've set up around that character.

Malcolm: Well then there's the word based ones like a, a lot of dad jokes or like word puns. Like, oh, how do you know it's a dad joke? I don't know. How do, how do I know it's a dad? It's apparent.[00:05:00]

Simone: Oh, but you see, right there, it fits this theory of humor that we have, which is, that was surprising. I didn't expect it, but it made sense. Mm-hmm. And what, where I think that really makes you laugh is it makes sense. Along multiple spectrums. Exactly,

Malcolm: exactly. And, and there's another type of humor that I particularly like in which that's more like a narrative based humor where a comedian will describe something even pretty mundane in life, but just using words that are not the typical words to use to describe it.

Malcolm: A really good example of this is describing snakes as danger noodles. And it's like Yes, yes. Where you're like, oh, yes. Like it is, it is funny cuz it, it is a danger noodle. It's a danger. Yeah. Like normally you'd be like, it, it is a snake, don't touch it. But saying danger noodle not safe to boop sounds like, oh it's surprising, but it makes

Simone: sense and I love it.

Simone: Another laughing, a great example of this. You wanna talk. Spicy is is Bron and Perver. One of the things he liked in his book was that he would write

Malcolm: his comedic misspellings. Yeah. Like he, he spells hormones. W H O R E M O N [00:06:00] S. And it's funny cuz it's surprising, but it makes sense.

Simone: Well it makes sense given the character that he has set up for himself in these books.

Simone: And how much of this is his actual character or not? I don't know. Yeah. But it makes sense in regards to his character. Mm-hmm. And so, even with us we might do things like, oh, well, there's nothing more perverse in building a relationship on love. And, and people laugh at that because they know that we're like this really anti they're like, oh, that makes sense.

Simone: Anti love characters, I know of them. Right. So they, they laugh at that. Okay. So we've gone over humor. Any other areas you wanna touch on, on humor?

Malcolm: No, but I, I would love to hear your comments, but I, I would encourage, listen other people's theories

Simone: if you think that this is like next time you watch something that you think is funny or something like that, watch for these different types of humors.

Simone: And personally, something to always be vigilant was. Especially if you're a guy while you're flirting. Is there a big difference if somebody laughing cuz they're aroused laughing because you're in this one, like, good type of humor and laughing because they're terrified of you?

Malcolm: Oh, that's big. [00:07:00] Yeah, because like, so, so some, some people say, okay, well men and sometimes women have a fight or flight response when very threatened, but women may also have a 10.

Malcolm: Or, or or befriend response. And I know that for sure when I am in pain, I am smiling and laughing. When I'm terrified, I'm smiling and laughing. So I, yeah, that is a really important point to bring up. Malcolm. I'm really glad you

Simone: brought it up. Well, do some guys optimize around it cuz they're like, oh, I understand how to be funny with a woman.

Simone: No, no, no. I'm really, what they've learned is had you absolutely terrified if people are on dates. Terrifi, yeah.

Malcolm: Not great. Not

Simone: great. Not, not a great thing to accidentally learn.

Malcolm: No

Side note. How and why did humor evolve? So I think our kids offer a great example of this. Because this is where I really came up with. The theory was in interacting with our kids. And seeing that when I did something that was surprising and made sense, you know, the kids would start to laugh. And my theory here. Is that the lapping that the kids are doing is saying to the adult, what you just did has almost clicked for me, [00:08:00] but it hasn't totally clicked yet. It's sort of makes sense. But it's still surprising in context. So I'm giving you this positive reward mechanism, EEG, seeing me laugh.

 So that you repeat what you just did until it stops being funny, or, you know, in the case of kids, it's no longer surprising. . Then the question is that okay? The, why did it continue to adults? And one of the things we always say is evolution's a cheap programmer. And I suspect here that the reason why this didn't end in adults, probably similar to like lactose intolerance, you know, that something that was supposed to be edited out of adults, but then.

You know, within certain population, state and adults in it. It kept in the adult population. Um, is that this not stopping laughing thing was actually a courtship ritual. Where, uh, it probably started primarily women to men. Given the other things we talked about where a woman would laugh at something the guy had just done, which was basically assigned to the guy. Oh, do that again.

In the same way that kids would [00:09:00] do it again too. They were hijacking a preexisting parental system. , to get the guy to redo specific behavior um, and it increases the bonds of the relationship more quickly. Which led to more efficient courtship rituals.

Malcolm: But how about, let, let's talk about. Offense. We love offense. Offense is a great emotion, right? We built a whole holiday around offense.

Malcolm: Why don't, why don't you go into our thoughts on offense, right? So we think offense is so delicious and so wonderful and so important to lean into because it is a sign that an idea credibly threatens your worldview. So, for example, the people often think an offensive thing is just an insulting thing or just a repugnant thing, which is not true.

Malcolm: For example, if somebody called me, I. A fat cow. I would be like not offended at all because I can tell like from my weight, from my bmi, I am technically not fat. However, if someone called me ugly, I would be offended because I kind of [00:10:00] know that I'm ugly. So you are not ugly, but you, cause you're my husband.

Malcolm: You're so perfect. Well, even in a world in which I wasn't ugly, although my face is technically deformed, so I am technically ugly and I have acne and all these other things I'm still, this is what she still acne looks like. I, I, I just covered it up with makeup actually. I was like, I can't deal with seeing this on camera.

Malcolm: I know. I never see anyway I, I would still, I am, I am female and it is cultural tradition to think that you're ugly as a female. So anyway, if someone said that to me, it would be offensive because. It, it threatens my worldview that I would like to think of myself as someone attractive because I'm very vain and yet I, I kind of know that's not true.

Malcolm: So like that's offense. And why offense is so important is we strongly believe from our, our value set that if you are wrong, You should, you should change your mind. You should be corrected and, and things are only offensive if you kind of in the back of your mind are like, you're not sure that it's totally wrong.

Simone: And this is especially to his ideologies. Mm-hmm. So [00:11:00] ideologies are particularly offensive if they're, yeah. Like if

Malcolm: you're climate change believer and someone's like, climate change is a hoax. That's very offensive if you,

Simone: we can think if they're stupid or just like out, but if, if it generates that offensive emotion in you mm-hmm.

Simone: Mm-hmm. Then it means there's likely something there that you're afraid of engaging with. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And afraid is the wrong word, that you are reflexively protecting yourself against engaging with. Mm-hmm. That is what the offense emotion does, and some cultures really prey on this. Mm-hmm. Where they create this mindset in people because, different cultures, they spread like a sort of mimetic viruses.

Simone: Right. And some obviously these viruses, like once they've infected a person, one of the ways they prevent other, Cultures or mimetic sets for coming in and displacing them is they train the person and recondition the person to see all offense as violence or much more threatening than it is to them so that they do not engage with any idea that [00:12:00] might be offensive to them.

Simone: Where offense in this context really just means threatening to the virus. Mm-hmm. Capable of dislodging the virus. And so you'll get these entire communities that are based around protecting oneself. Right? Exactly. So, so what they'll do, As they'll say, this person said something offensive, they won't even know.

Simone: But then the entire community that's infected with this virus just won't engage with any content that person is producing. Mm-hmm. Cause that's even better. Like once the virus says, okay, if somebody does something that's offensive to anyone within our community we know they might be capable of dislodging the virus from any other individual in the community, and therefore we need to train our community to not engage with it.

Simone: Yeah. And that is the very last thing, if I'm creating an intergenerationally durable culture for my kids, I want it to survive because it, it's the best. Mm-hmm. I don't want it to survive because it. It, it, it prevented them from engaging with any other idea. Mm-hmm. And, and, and again, this is something you see with, with [00:13:00] everything from, ultra, ultra progressive community to some like religious cult.

Simone: Right? This idea of don't engage with anything that offends any member of our community. Now after offense a great emotion is anger. Do you wanna go into what causes anger in people?

Malcolm: Yes. And it is not as Yoda says, fear needs to anger. Anger needs to hate and hate needs to suffering.

Malcolm: It's not I, I, Malcolm again came up with this theory because he's the one who's capable of complex. I'm

Simone: psychology nerd. I'm the modeling people.

Malcolm: No, you're, you're the one who can miraculously and amazingly like think things through five steps ahead, whereas I'm like, Barely even with the, the current stuff.

Malcolm: But anyway, your theory for anchor, and I definitely think this, this aligns and it also aligns well with the other models, is people become angry when they are not treated in line with their expectations. And this can be and I first I was like, I don't really understand this because I don't really expect anyone to treat me a certain way because I kind of just don't trust or like anyone, I just [00:14:00] assume people are going to be complete b******s, but you don't really get angry.

Malcolm: Well, so that's why I usually don't get angry. But there have been instances in which I felt extremely angry like literally cried with rage. And every time I find myself literally crying with rage, it is when I have to deal with a bureaucracy. It's when I have to deal with a dmv, it's when I have to file paperwork.

Malcolm: It's when I'm at a hospital and they're not doing the scan that I want because, there's, there's. Some weird thing that like didn't get filled out that is exactly for the requirements and my insurance isn't paying for it the right way, or something like that. And these are all the times that I have cried with rage, and it is because.

Malcolm: I, I don't believe systems should be so massively inefficient, and I think that systems should treat humans in a different and more efficient way. So I even then, it's not just people not treating you in the way that you expect it could be even life circumstances, not treating you people

Simone: Yeah. Of this happening with a A non sentient object could be like a car.

Simone: Mm-hmm. Like you're twisting it and it makes a little bit of noise, like it's about to turn on and it doesn't turn on. Mm-hmm. You expect a car to turn on when you turn [00:15:00] the keys.

Malcolm: Yes. You get angry. How dare this car? Yes. You, you're gonna punch the car. Yeah. It

Simone: doesn't turn on when you're hitting the remote or you see this classically with something like a golfer, right? So they're trying to hit the ball and you think they're following all the steps to hit the ball, right? And it just doesn't go right and they get angrier and angrier every time it doesn't go right, which again, affects 'em more and they get angrier still.

Simone: But where this sort of anger can become really problematic is when you have a society. In which there are mismatched expectations. Mm. So, one place this gets really toxic is in relationships when one person has an expectation that their partner treats them in a certain way and then the partner doesn't treat them in that way, and it causes an anger response and then that anger response because the other person doesn't expect the person to get angry.

Simone: They think they're treating them within the cultural expectations of what they expect in terms of how they expected they were supposed to treat their partner in a relationship. And then that generates anger in them. And, and, and then this other person's like, why are you angry? You spiral angry.

Simone: You're the one who wasn't doing what you were supposed to do. And then that generates anger in [00:16:00] them. And this is why things like relationship contracts, point of another podcast are so absolutely critical. But you also have this in the real world. So an example of where I would, would talk about here is, is.

Simone: Proper pronouns, in, in terms of misgendering is one person. This happens when you have mismatched cultures where there is like a persistent mismatch of cultures where one cultural group thinks that they're supposed to be gendered one way and another cultural group. Thinks that gendering should be done in another way.

Simone: And so the, the one group genders the way they think that they're supposed to gender, and then this generates anger in the other group because they're not, and then they get angry, and then the other group thinks that they're not supposed to be corrected on these sorts of things. So then they get angry and you can create this sort of like pointless persistent anger.

Simone: Which, which. Is caused by cultural expectations. Now, another instance in which anger gets really bad is, is when it's reinforced as the correct emotion within people. [00:17:00] So another time you'll angry is when they culturally feel validated in that anger. So one of the things that I've experienced before, and I don't know if other people have, is somebody else comes to you and they're like, oh, you should be really angry about that, and you weren't really angry before.

Simone: And then you start to get angry because they've created this narrative that the anger is justified. Mm-hmm. And that's why, one of the worst things a partner can do is if you come home and you tell them about someone at work. Who, who, who is pissing you off is telling you, oh, you're justified in those emotions because then those emotions build and they get worse.

Simone: You're, you're not making it better by doing that instead of talking through, why do you think they're doing this? Is there intention to slight you? Is it a cultural mismatch? Mis mismatch, an expectation? No, but of course, Same as misgendering, same as office. If a person could be doing it as a, as an intention to slight you they could be doing it to make you angry because, for some reason, you're part of a different cultural tribe in them and they think your cultural tribe's enemies, so they're gonna like just do whatever they can to hurt you.

Simone: [00:18:00] Yeah. But in other instances, it could just be that they're, a different cultural group than you.

Malcolm: Yeah. Actually, let's, let's dig into this. Both like the. The ways you can feed. Emotions. Yeah. And when that's toxic and when that's good because in our family, for example, we're very strict about not condoning feeding negative emotions.

Malcolm: And so you'd think that sort of like in general as a family where like super emotionally oppressive and just like shut it down, don't feel it, et cetera. But we actually invest a ton in feeding positive emotions like you Malcolm, are. Constantly leaning into playfulness, joy, gratitude. You're constantly complimenting me.

Malcolm: You're constantly making me feel like the most beautiful person in the room, the best parent ever. Well, bully. I don't

Simone: do that. Just to masturbate those

Malcolm: emotional steps, right? You do it functional, like there is a functional reason for it. I mean,

Simone: you work for me and you're more efficient when you're happy.

Simone: So I, I've, but no, that's the thing. [00:19:00] That's the thing. It's for my own benefit.

Malcolm: Well, it is, but, and that's the, what we, what we wanna optimize for here is sociopathic use of emotions, right? So like, people have heard about probably the, the, like the punching bag study where like, when, when people were encouraged to punch, well, people

Simone: haven't heard of this, so talk about it because almost everybody gets this

Malcolm: wrong.

Malcolm: Right. So, so a lot of people believe that sort of like if you let off steam, you are reducing like emotional buildup pressure and therefore you like punching a punching bag for you. Yeah. Whereas it was found instead in, in, in one study that when people were encouraged to let their anger out on something like a punching bag that actually increased their anger versus that they just did something else like a control activity.

Malcolm: So this, this basically is, is to imply that. If you lean into an emotion, if you indulge it, if you, if you talk with people who are like, yeah, you should be mad, or, like, you, like, yell or scream, it's gonna make it worse. Kind of, we, we think the same with grief, crying being offended. All these things you can feed well.

Simone: But I mean, let's talk about anger for a second here, right? Yeah. Yeah. In terms [00:20:00] of, of, of how you let that eat at you. You know when, when my kid gets angry, Right. He'll get angry cuz something doesn't align with his expectations or he's in a bad overly state. What does an overly state mean? So an overly state is what like the filter that all your emotions are coming through.

Simone: Mm-hmm. Think of it like a tint on your glasses or something like that, that makes everything redder or something. Now humans can experience these for reasons that they don't have conscious access to. So a great example is you can inject someone with adrenaline and they will be more irritable.

Simone: It, it basically get angrier more easily at things. Even if they know they were injected with adrenaline, you

Malcolm: can't help it. Like right now, I'm, I'm I'm experiencing insanely high levels of estrogen because we're doing. Egg retrieval with I V F and I'm like literally injecting like pretty significant amount amounts.

Simone: You get angry much, much. You almost never normally

Malcolm: get angry. Like, I'm behaving horribly and I know I'm behaving horribly, but I also can't seem to help it. So overly state affecting

Simone: is it's filter. So [00:21:00] kids, this happens a lot, they'll know they're feeling bad. But they won't be able to put a finger on why.

Simone: Mm-hmm. So every little thing, they're like, kind of like that door closed, and then they'll get really angry that the door is open, like close the door, and then you close the door and they lick around and the anger hasn't gotten away. And so they're like give me that egg. Like that's the new thing that they absolutely have to have.

Simone: And so one thing we talk about with our kids is like, does this make you feel good? And this is what we talk about with like negative emotions, right? Like, does it feel good to be angry? Does it make you more efficient to be angry? There are very, very few scenarios in which emotions like anger are going to make you more efficient or make you happier in the long run?

Simone: Maybe with something like grief, this could be different. I disagree. I think it's very rarely of utility. And so we talk through, okay, well if it doesn't make you happy, what can we do to get over it? And the, the core thing that gets over an emotion like that is, one, contextualizing it is not appropriate.

Simone: And two interrupting it. A lot of emotions are just bead cycles, like a can of Pringles. Once you pop you can't stop. And just about walking away from the Pringles having a glass of [00:22:00] milk, so, our, our kid three, when he gets angry we're like, well, do you wanna keep being angry or do you wanna take a few breaths?

Simone: And so he'll go, no, I wanna, I wanna take a few breaths, and he'll go, and it helps it pass. Now the final emotion I wanted to talk about here was shame. Shame. So shame happens when you yourself don't live up to the self-image you have of yourself. So we all have these images of the type of people we want to be, the type of people we want other people to see us as.

Simone: And we feel this. Shame emotion when we don't live up to that self-image. And this can be a persistent problem when a culture creates a emotion, a a, an expectation of ourselves, which is just completely unreasonable. Which, which some cultures do. They just create these completely unrealistic expectations of us.

Simone: And then they use those to beholden us to the culture because we're never living up to who [00:23:00] we, we meant to be. Now I think that in a way that can be useful, Simone and I. We hold very high cultural expectations of ourselves, and I do to some extent always have some base level of shame because I'm, I'm never being the person I know I have the potential to be, which is who I expect myself to be.

Simone: However, I think there's a big difference between this sort of like 10% shame all the time, and like 80% shame all the time. Yeah. And so I think that that's a good shame is well, and shame,

Malcolm: shame can be very damaging, right? Like it's, it's discovered with a masturbation, for example, that when you are ashamed of it, when you think that it's a bad or evil thing, then you're really going to experience a lot of the negative effects of it.

Malcolm: Whereas, like

Simone: if you're, you have experience very few negative effects from masturbation if you're not ashamed of it and this mm-hmm. Studies and you also will consume it more. So one of my favorite studies is if you look at like PornHub. By in, in, in sort of like Utah by the percentage of conservative Mormons in that area, like goes up.

Simone: The more there, I think it was, or might have been Catholics in, and I can't remember this study was either done with Mormons or Catholics, but it was looking at zip codes and porn consumption and religiosity. And the more [00:24:00] religious people were the higher the rates of porn consumption were. Now, part of me thinks that what this study is getting wrong, it's, these are the people who don't know about, like the truly kinky psychs and so they're gonna porn.

Malcolm: Yeah, they just, they're not connoisseurs that's. The problem. Yeah. No, no, they're not coming. Yeah. Their friends aren't giving them good recommendations. That's very sad. But I mean, I think that the big takeaway here is, is one, we find that there's, there's a lot of, it's a lot easier to navigate your emotions when you understand the underpinnings and you can then affect the constraints.

Malcolm: You can, you, you can affect the inputs and also understand them and act on them. Because often emotions are assigned that there's something, I mean, we see them as a signal that. Should be acted on or not acted on, but certainly a signal that's indicating a thing that you might wanna know about. It's kind of like a pop-up window and you need to either exit out or be like, oh, I need to troubleshoot this issue.

Malcolm: Yeah. But the other thing is that like you should learn to not feed some emotions, but also leverage other emotions. Be it shame, be it joy, be it gratitude in a way that is instrumental useful to you. And sadly, Malcolm. We must, well, not sadly, actually, we need to go indulge in the emotions of [00:25:00] joy and gratitude and playfulness with our children now.

Malcolm: Cause it's daycare pickup time. But I'm, I love these conversations and thank you for coming up with these fun theories. Like, th these have come up over the span. Of maybe like five years. And they've, they've gotten more unique and interesting over time. And thank you for coming up with these fun things and inspiring all these amazing conversations.

Malcolm: I love talking with you. And I feel like they're only gonna get better with each new year. So thank you for, I

Simone: love talking with you too, Simone. You are just, The most amazing partner that you go through this stuff with me and you help keep me honest with myself and my expectations for myself and you, you ensure that those expectations are always

Malcolm: high.

Malcolm: I, I keep your shame levels maximum. You're welcome. Isn't that what wives are all for, right? Yeah.

Simone: So we wanna do for, I, I'd love it if you put on a pizza for me cause I haven't

Malcolm: done it. Oh my God. I'm doing pizza too. Yes. Okay. Pizza night, 100%. All right. See you soon.

Simone: Yeah.