Senga: Most companies are actually what you describe. We have the more product oriented ctond, and a people organization oriented v p of engineering. Senga: To get some of the b ps you want, they're going to want a seat at the executive table. There's quite a few founding os who do not want to hand off that product report? They still want to touch the product. And so it's an interesting topic to dig into because it's still not thee de base or almost one for work.

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