Token vs Equity: Who Captures Value?

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After a “weird” year in the markets, hosts Ram Ahluwalia and Christopher Perkins are joined by Ava Labs’ President John Wu for a candid debate about where crypto really is in the cycle—and what needs to happen next.

The panel wrestles with a question many investors are quietly asking: has the market washed out enough to set up the next move, or is something still missing? They explore why momentum has faded, what signs would suggest it’s coming back, and why 2026 keeps coming up in long-term conversations—even as near-term enthusiasm remains divided.

Plus, why TGEs are “dying” and, with the rise of super apps, does Coinbase has an edge on Web2 players like Robinhood? 

Hosts:

• Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida

• Christopher Perkins, Managing Partner and President of CoinFund

Guest:

• John Wu, President of Ava Labs

Links:

• Unchained: 

• Circle Acquires Interop Labs Team, Excludes Axelar Foundation and Token 

• Aave’s Rushed Governance Vote Draws Backlash

• UNI Token Rallies as Voting Begins on UNIfication Proposal

• Bitcoin’s Demand Boom is Fading: CryptoQuant

• Alex Thorn predicts BTC will reach $250K by end of 2027 

• Memento’s research on TGEs 

• Jeff Dorman on X: “I don’t know a single liquid fund that has bought a new token on TGE in over 2 years.”

• CoinDesk: Coinbase rolls out stock trading, prediction markets and more in bid to become the 'Everything Exchange'

• The Block: 

• Coinbase to acquire prediction markets startup The Clearing Company

• AAVE token holder proposes 'poison pill' for DAO to absorb Aave Labs amid contentious revenue debate

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

📉 1:55 What made this a truly “weird year” for markets

🗓️ 7:09 Why 2026 may be a breakout year and why not all tokens may survive

🌊 8:41 Whether a big washout is ahead and what actually brings momentum back

🔁 13:40 How the four-year cycle, midterms, and new cohorts keep reshaping crypto demand

🏦 20:30 The fight over institutional settlement layers and Canton’s rise

🧩 24:34 Why tokens exist at all and where real value capture is getting lost

⚖️ 30:19 How investors should think about the constant tug-of-war between equity and tokens

📊 41:07 Why Chris feels constructive on markets while Ram sees something missing

💵 43:52 Why stablecoins are quietly becoming the “new net interest income”

📱 44:51 How super apps are changing the game and why Coinbase may have an edge over Robinhood

🧟 53:16 Why token generation events are fading

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