I feel like Elden Ring is a good analogy to music production, because it's both art and fairly complex engineering. I just think the general, I think people get confused about what it is and just don't really know what it is per se. When you think about movies, we talk about the actor and the actresses, but we also talk about the director. We don't talk about like that with the music as often. It's just like, isn't part of like the rhetoric of how we just discuss the creation of art?