42: How Does A Psychologist Get Heuermann To Talk?
Long Island Serial Killer | The Trial Of Rex Heuermann
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In a recent episode of the "Hidden Killers" podcast, host Tony Brueski engaged in a revealing conversation with Clinical and Forensic Psychologist & licensed private investigator, Joni Johnston, as they grappled with the psychological complexities behind Rex Heuerman. Heuerman is the man now imprisoned amid harrowing allegations.
Brueski began by probing into the mind of such individuals: "As we dive into Rex Heuerman, from a psychological standpoint, how would someone approach the conversation about his mental state now that he's behind bars?"
Johnston's insight into this realm was both enlightening and compelling. She began, "It's hard to imagine a scenario when he would agree to a forensic psychological evaluation." But in the event that he did, Johnston explained, the primary objective is to build rapport. "Unless you can establish some kind of rapport with that person, you are going to get nowhere with them," she said.
She elaborated on her methods, "One of the things I do sometimes in evaluating defendants facing very difficult trials is I try to empathize with their feelings about where they are." Whether innocent or guilty, many defendants often feel trapped, victimized, and overwhelmed by their current circumstances. Approaching from a place of empathy, Johnston conveyed, is key to gaining their trust.
The motive of the psychologist's presence also plays a pivotal role. She stated, "Their reception of me is going to be different if I am coming in as a court-appointed evaluator, or if I'm coming in on behalf of the defense or the prosecutor." Johnston underscored the importance of transparency and ensuring the person understands their rights, including the right not to participate.
Delving deeper, she described her tactic to approach such conversations gradually. "I start really from a subject that's very far away from the current situation... starting with non-threatening questions, talking about their childhood, where they grew up, earliest memories... and I gradually work my way up to the current situation."
However, Johnston highlighted that interviews form just a part of a multifaceted process. She brings in psychological testing as a potent tool. "It gives me a way to compare this particular person to thousands of other people who've taken some of the same instruments." As Johnston shared, these assessments are designed to detect inconsistencies, offering insights into whether someone is feigning mental illness or denying its presence.
She added, "One of the things that really differentiates a forensic evaluation from a clinical evaluation is that person may have a very understandable reason to lie." To counteract potential deceit, Johnston stressed the importance of consulting diverse sources, from custody officers to witness statements, and even to the person's previous acquaintances. This expansive approach provides a rounded view, helping identify patterns in behavior, whether indicating mental health issues or stability.
Johnston concluded, "It really is a pretty comprehensive evaluation that takes that person where they are now. Depending upon what the referral question is, I'm gonna use all those strategies to put together and form some kind of opinion about this person."
The insightful exchange between Brueski and Johnston offers a glimpse into the intricacies of forensic psychology. As the case of Rex Heuerman unfolds, the importance of understanding the mind behind the man becomes ever more crucial, not just for the case but for the broader comprehension of the human psyche.
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The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com
Brueski began by probing into the mind of such individuals: "As we dive into Rex Heuerman, from a psychological standpoint, how would someone approach the conversation about his mental state now that he's behind bars?"
Johnston's insight into this realm was both enlightening and compelling. She began, "It's hard to imagine a scenario when he would agree to a forensic psychological evaluation." But in the event that he did, Johnston explained, the primary objective is to build rapport. "Unless you can establish some kind of rapport with that person, you are going to get nowhere with them," she said.
She elaborated on her methods, "One of the things I do sometimes in evaluating defendants facing very difficult trials is I try to empathize with their feelings about where they are." Whether innocent or guilty, many defendants often feel trapped, victimized, and overwhelmed by their current circumstances. Approaching from a place of empathy, Johnston conveyed, is key to gaining their trust.
The motive of the psychologist's presence also plays a pivotal role. She stated, "Their reception of me is going to be different if I am coming in as a court-appointed evaluator, or if I'm coming in on behalf of the defense or the prosecutor." Johnston underscored the importance of transparency and ensuring the person understands their rights, including the right not to participate.
Delving deeper, she described her tactic to approach such conversations gradually. "I start really from a subject that's very far away from the current situation... starting with non-threatening questions, talking about their childhood, where they grew up, earliest memories... and I gradually work my way up to the current situation."
However, Johnston highlighted that interviews form just a part of a multifaceted process. She brings in psychological testing as a potent tool. "It gives me a way to compare this particular person to thousands of other people who've taken some of the same instruments." As Johnston shared, these assessments are designed to detect inconsistencies, offering insights into whether someone is feigning mental illness or denying its presence.
She added, "One of the things that really differentiates a forensic evaluation from a clinical evaluation is that person may have a very understandable reason to lie." To counteract potential deceit, Johnston stressed the importance of consulting diverse sources, from custody officers to witness statements, and even to the person's previous acquaintances. This expansive approach provides a rounded view, helping identify patterns in behavior, whether indicating mental health issues or stability.
Johnston concluded, "It really is a pretty comprehensive evaluation that takes that person where they are now. Depending upon what the referral question is, I'm gonna use all those strategies to put together and form some kind of opinion about this person."
The insightful exchange between Brueski and Johnston offers a glimpse into the intricacies of forensic psychology. As the case of Rex Heuerman unfolds, the importance of understanding the mind behind the man becomes ever more crucial, not just for the case but for the broader comprehension of the human psyche.
Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj
Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com
The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com
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