The Clash of Values: Christian Fundamentalism and Political Rhetoric

Ep. 191 (Part 1 of 2) | Professor Mark Fischler, constitutional law expert and co-host of the Integral Justice Warrior podcast, helps us make sense of what’s happening to our democracy, providing context—historical, legal, ethical—for the plethora of disturbing and destructive acts occurring on a daily basis in our political arena. The rule of law is under direct attack at this time, he explains, and an assault on democracy is essentially an assault on our most fundamental values—the principles this country was founded on: inclusivity, equality, and dignity for all. 

Mark clarifies President Trump’s political actions in the context of developmental stages, unpacks Project 2025, and discusses the assault on higher education and critical thinking and what it portends. The trajectory of where we are headed, Mark points out, is regressing into values we have already transcended. We need our democratic foundation to move to deeper, post-democratic levels that are reflective of greater levels of interconnection and inclusivity—not the opposite, he says. What will it take to change the regressive trajectory? Courage! And involvement. Thank you, Mark, for bringing a rare depth and much-needed clarity to the subject of the evolving democratic crisis occurring in our nation today and its implications for our future. Recorded June 12, 2025.

“The rule of law is a hard-earned process… and it’s under direct attack at this time in our country.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

• Introducing constitutional law expert, professor of Ethics, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Procedure, and co-host of the Integral Justice Warrior podcast, Mark Fischler (00:39)
• Trump, tribalism, and the zero-sum game: there are winners & losers; the losers deserve to lose (01:31)
• The rule of law is under direct attack in the U.S. at this time (11:34)
• Dehumanization and Trump’s pre-conventional ethic of retribution (14:41)
• Our nation is built on ethics of higher purpose; our founding fathers specifically banned gifts to the President in the Constitution (17:30)
• Where is Congress in all of this? (21:13)
• Treason and bribery are the two legal grounds for impeachment (21:55)
• What is Project 2025, and the over-rulings of judicial rulings by the executive (25:33)
• The Heritage Foundation, responsible for developing the central ideas of Project 2025 (29:41)
• Project 2025’s pre-conventional position on abortion and family (32:49)
• Why does democracy matter? (36:22)
• What we are experiencing is a direct attack on the principles of inclusivity (37:53)
• How does slashing Medicare and Medicaid square with Christian values? (40:21)
• The trajectory of where we are headed: regressing into values we have already transcended (43:14)
• The left has made it easy for the far right (43:48)
• The assault on higher education and critical thinking (44:17)

Resources & References – Part 1

• The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (Integral Life website)
• J. Michael Luttig, The End of Rule of Law in America (The Atlantic Magazine)
• Don Beck & Christopher Cowan, Spiral Dynamics
• Martin Buber, best known for his philosophy of dialogue centered on the distinction between the I–Thou relationship and the I–It relationship
• Martin Luther King Jr.’s Letter from the Birmingham Jail
• Lincoln’s Gettysburg address
• Abraham Lincoln’s second inaugural address
• Project 2025 Presidential Transition Project, developed by The Heritage Foundation
• Winston Churchill, “The worst form of government”

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Mark Fischler is a professor of Ethics, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Procedure at Plymouth State University. Prior to joining the Plymouth State faculty, he practiced law, representing poor criminal defendants for the New Hampshire Public Defender’s Office. Mark left the law after being guided by the Universe to focus on his Spiritual Awareness for almost two years. Upon his return, he was called to become a teacher and accepted a job at Plymouth State in 2003. 

Since then, Mark has worked extensively with alternative theoretical models in law, constitutional law, and higher education, and has published on integral applications to teaching, being a lawyer, and legal theory. In his time at the university, he’s been a chair, Dean, and Interim VP. His focus in the classroom is ethics and criminal procedure and constitutional law. He is well respected for a teaching philosophy that emphasizes recognizing the humanity and dignity of each student. Professor Fischler was awarded the outstanding teaching award at his university in 2014. He currently offers a weekly Spiritual Inquiry class for college students.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell