energy, and for me, it wasn't coming across as great, I haven't listened back to the, to the conversation yet, so it might be that it's actually all right, I think I've said this before, that sometimes I listen back to something I thought was over online, it's actually pretty good, so, but that's the day I said, okay, that's it, from now on, I'm not giving the option for the camera to be off with people I haven't met before, because I don't know what they're going to do, the other advantage of course of having the camera on is that if you hear some noise or something, you know, where it's coming from, so I remember again with this person, they had background noise, but I didn't know if it was outside of where they were, if people were entering the space, and sometimes I've had to say to someone, if you want we can stop, because I've heard noise and guests are very well behaved, they won't say hang on, well, most of them won't say, hang on, can we just stop, I've got some noise here, which is perfectly all right by the way, I'd rather they do that, again you don't see, or sometimes people, you know they'll, they'll be playing with stuff, and you can hear something's going on, but you don't know what, if the camera is on then you can check out what are they doing, you know, are they like my co-host team, he always does this, this is like his hands rubbing in front of the microphone, because he's just talking with his hands, but I can see him and I can just just stop with your hands, so there we go, live and learn, all right I'm going to recommend one show, it's all about psychology, we've gone a little bit psychological today, the show is called All in the Mind, and of course it's about different aspects of psychology, and seeing as I mentioned Richard, if you are into psychology then maybe you want to listen to my pocket psych, which is all about the psychology in the workplace, sorry, psychology of the workplace, and it's my friend Dr. Richard McKinnon, sometimes with guests, sometimes on his own, and sometimes with me, so there you go, under 10 minutes today, and I remembered to tell you about the podcast and the live event of the 30th of November, thank you for listening. That's it for today's Thoughts and Adventures in Podcasting, I would love to hear your thoughts, so if you want to get in touch, head over to adventuresinpodcasting.com My name is Pilar Orte, thank you for listening, keep podcasting.