I don't know I accept to say that again it does kind of all run back downhill to your work with Martin Noak or actually let me talk about Gould and Verba right. Acceptation is something that emerged in one context finding new function in a different context so the classic example of the fish limb being something that first confers a fitness advantage, then only later gets repurposed for flight. There's this thing that kind of speaks to when we had you know Miguel Fuentes on the show and we were talking about how he and Murray Gellman wrote about emergence as an epistemic thing. It's very difficult to say whether these things actually have a kind of being of

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