The Importance of Mentors and Failure in Business

[00:01:12] So today I'm talking to Kathy. Kathy, where in the world are you?

[00:01:15] Kathy: [00:01:15] I am in beautiful Sarasota, Florida.

[00:01:18] dane: [00:01:18] All right, well, this little human there in Sarasota.

[00:01:21] Kathy: [00:01:21] I don't care how good it is. It was a blessing to live here. I've been here 25 years. I grew up in Rhode Island. I don't like snow or cold.

[00:01:31] dane: [00:01:31] Good. And you're, you know that and you have no guilt or shame about it.

[00:01:35] You're live where you live. That's right. That's very important. When you find that authentic voice that's just so honest and you're like, yep, I no longer care what people think. This is what I want. That's a special woman. And there's also something pretty special about this podcast. Can you tell folks that are listening, how we know each other?

[00:01:51] Kathy: [00:01:51] I knew of you when I first heard about paperless pipeline and myself and my assistant at the time. We were [00:02:00] beta testers for paperless pipeline. So we were very involved in the building process of it and then utilized it for years afterwards.

[00:02:09] dane: [00:02:09] So that's wonderful. And so I didn't know this. People listening as she got on, she said, I know you because I was a beta tester for your software product.

[00:02:18] PayPal is pipeline, which has passed its 10th year anniversary. It's still going along nice. And so it's an honor to have you here. And also just for folks listening. For you to hear how happy one of my customers was in working with me. Did you feel cared for Kathy?

[00:02:36] Kathy: [00:02:36] I have to say that my perception assessment and the reason why I even continued to follow you all the years after pipeline was that.

[00:02:46] You were brilliant. You had a way of, even as you grew your

[00:02:50] dane: [00:02:50] product,

[00:02:51] Kathy: [00:02:51] making your end users still feel like you matter and you are important. Many people as they grow, lose that.

[00:03:01] dane: [00:03:01] Well, I did lose it a little bit and it came rushing back when I got hit in the face.

[00:03:05] Kathy: [00:03:05] I don't know. In my mind, I'm like, whatever Dane touches, I want to know what it

[00:03:10] dane: [00:03:10] is.

[00:03:12] That's so sweet. Thank you. Thank you. You know, when I say I lost, I probably still had it in comparison to others, but to the degree, like. I care so much about the people that I work with. I had one of my very first customers was a real estate broker in Texas. He's one of my first 50 customers, and you know what?

[00:03:31] I called him the other day just to say hi after not talking for eight years, and it had been 12 years since we worked together and I called them to say hi and say thank you. And to say thank you for believing in me. Thank you for buying my product when I was so young. Thank you for referring me to the customers you did.

[00:03:47] I still think of you. I think if you fondly and get even emotional as I talk about it, just thank you for believing in me. Like an entrepreneur's first. Customers are almost like a first boyfriend or girlfriend, you know, we know them by name. We're [00:04:00] so grateful they take a chance on us. So I called him to tell him that after like 10 years, just to say thank you.

[00:04:04] And it felt so good. And you know, he had had some doubts in his life and he had questioned a few decisions that he made and he was having a human moment where he's questioning if what he did mattered. And it just meant so much to him to hear from me, to say thank you and. That's the kind of connection that if you have with people, makes your businesses so much fun to run.

[00:04:24] Kathy: [00:04:24] And that's exactly how I feel about each person that I have helped buy or sell a home as you would just talking. That's how I feel about everyone I've worked with. To me, that's the rewarding part. It truly is. And to hear them come back to me and say. We wouldn't be in this house if it wasn't for you, Cathy, or that's what makes it all worthwhile.

[00:04:46] I'm celebrating my 20th year in real estate. It doesn't seem like 20 years.

[00:04:52] dane: [00:04:52] Wow. So what's your big goal for the call today?

[00:04:55] Kathy: [00:04:55] Honestly, when you put this out there, I'm like, yeah, anything you do I want to learn, I want to be a part of. And I'm like, what do I want to do? Do I want it? I have ideas for going in a different direction with my real estate, but I also have ideas for different business I want to do.

[00:05:09] So.

[00:05:10] dane: [00:05:10] So you knew there was something you wanted with this call and you're willing to book it to see what might happen? Yes. Okay. If you knew you couldn't fail and there was something that excited you to no end, you're like, wow, I could get to do that. Do you know what that would be this year? Yes,

[00:05:31] Kathy: [00:05:31] and I now have a look at anything like, I'm going to fail.

[00:05:34] dane: [00:05:34] Okay.

[00:05:35] Kathy: [00:05:35] I don't fail. Failure is not an option. So one of my passions has been nutrition and simple nutrition because I've lived it myself. And then I found myself stumbling into it with other people and helping them just to understand basics and make it easy and dumb it down to them and say, maybe you want to switch this for this.

[00:05:55] And I'm like, is there any way I can turn this into a business? I'm passionate about [00:06:00] this because. I lived it and I enjoy that. I helped my niece who had high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes. Just give her ideas, but different ways to make things so it helped make her healthier. I think what I'm learning from people is.

[00:06:17] We have a lot of information throughout. We are definitely in the information, like throw it all at us in our heads, spin 5,000 miles an hour, but something simple and say, okay, great. You like to eat this. Why don't you try this instead? Because you're going to feel

[00:06:30] dane: [00:06:30] better. Okay, perfect. This will be a wonderful call.

[00:06:35] So I'll give you a way to start this from zero effectively, and I can't wait to teach you about this, like really fundamental business principle that. I call it the spine of a business. And if you get this right, you can pretty much build anything you want on top of it. It also insulates you from your business failing because you can change and iterate it, and it's just one of the most harmonious ways.

[00:07:02] And when I say harmony, I mean like a full on rich cord and all of its beauty ways to build a business. And I'll give you some examples, and since I've talked about this in so many other episodes, I'm going to just introduce it a little differently again so people can get a different flavor for it. You can build a business at light speed, like really fast, like days, weeks, like if you just focus on the things that make a business a business.

[00:07:28] And a business becomes a business. The moment you get your first paying customer, not the moment you get the idea. Not the moment you buy the domain, not the moment you make a logo, not even the moment you buy your first location and move your furniture in, not the moment you declare you are a corporation.

[00:07:44] A business exists in my view of the world. As soon as you have that first customer paying for it, so you'd be surprised. Customers will pay for things that have no names, no business names, no branded email addresses. I built my software company to probably [00:08:00] half a million a year in revenue off my personal Gmail address because I was so intentionally lazy and not getting a branded email.

[00:08:07] Cause I knew people did. It didn't matter because I, that's a real estate broker said, Hey, do you care if my email is a Gmail or a branded email or do you care if you get a great result. Like, I really just want a result, Dane, I don't care what your email looks like. If a business begins when the customer pays, then this can eliminate all the anxiety around business because now what we do is we reduce ourselves down to zero and make our customer up to a hundred and so we don't exist.

[00:08:33] The customer exists at a hundred and then we just listened to them. And then with that listening, we use discernment. But you'd be surprised in areas that you're not listening where you think you are, because there's usually a spot. And the unfortunate truth that I've come to realize is that. If there's an area that you're being talked to and you're not listening, it's generally fear and likely unconscious pride.

[00:08:57] Like you don't know. You're too proud to listen, but you just don't. And once you address unconscious pride, you look at it, you're like, ah, you realize it's really uncomfortable. They listened to probably what they're saying because it's either too simple or you don't want to do it. Or like the truth of the matter is, I've got this advanced sort of level of technical knowledge and building software companies and this advanced level of business knowledge.

[00:09:19] But I could probably make a hundred million a year if I wanted teaching senior citizens how to use the internet. You know, like how to type in a domain. What happens when you forget your password. Like my friend has a website and his literal most popular page on his website is forgot my MSN password.

[00:09:40] That forgot password is below the login button and senior citizen folks that use MSN or whatever demographic uses MSN is generally tech illiterate. So you open up a tab and search what to do if I forgot my MSN password. So he makes loads of money on advertising by solving this real simple problem because he's [00:10:00] listening.

[00:10:00] If you'd like to get a free one on one with me and beyond this show, you can find out details@startfromzero.com slash podcast. So now notice, watch this. If you think that, Oh my gosh, they don't know the forgot passwords below the login button, or they have to go and search if you have any judgments or you think they're stupid, that is your unconscious pride.

[00:10:24] That's your unconscious arrogance judging another human for not being where you are and that is your loss of wealth. You just lost all that wealth. I've actually got a friend, he, well, he's not a friend, he was in a mastermind group and he was one of the first guys that made all these advanced flash games, flashes, sold technologies like Coca Cola would contact him, pay him like 50 to a hundred grand to make these cool interactive.

[00:10:49] Advertisements with flashy, click the button and shoot Coke into a basketball hoop and whatever. And he makes his passive income off of a little book that does teaching your citizens how to use an iPad. But he was so frustrated by that cause it doesn't actualize his intelligence that high. But what people want with something so simple.

[00:11:07] So what's a state? This again? Someone forgets their MSN password, the forgot passwords below the login button. They don't see it. They go type in, you have judgments of that person. That's your lost wealth. That's your lost income. And I have this happen to me. I'm human. People ask me for things. I'm like, that's stupid.

[00:11:24] And then I see a business built around it later and I'm like, Oh crap. I wasn't listening. I wasn't listening. So if a business begins when the customer is found and pays for, then all we need to do is find your first few customers. The next thing now customer has. And it's very important. So you have customer is the result that they want, and it's only that.

[00:11:45] It's really only that yes, you're a positive experience while they get the results. So it's more than only. Like if you could transform how you want to think about business overnight, you want to think of it as customer and result. And now the spine, the way you build it at light speed, as [00:12:00] you have clear customer, clearly defined customer, and then you have clearly defined result.

[00:12:05] These are the two elements. Not your name, not your logo, not your brand, not your website, not your incorporation, not your team, not your employees. Clear customer clear result, you're aligned to that. Those take up 95% of your mental bandwidth. Right now you're talking about a nutrition thing and the nutrition thing is likely taking up a lot of bandwidth in the mind.

[00:12:25] Like that's what you're thinking of. How do I turn this into a business? How do I use my ideas? How do I use my food stuff for nutrition stuff to start something? And so naturally the brain just automatically starts to grow all this mental real estate when it's not about nutrition. It's about a clear customer that wants a clear result, which is they want to lose weight, they want to feel better, they want to have more energy.

[00:12:44] These are the things that they're thinking about. But your thinking about nutrition. So what happens is you start now aligning nutrition to result and you become very ordinary about talking about result. Like, Hey, you'll lose 10 pounds in a month. It's more ordinary than like 1500 calories to 1100 calories from this to no carbohydrate to like this.

[00:13:04] So like these fatty acid, like all these things are. So tantalizing. But then you just say, yeah, you lose 10 pounds in a month. It's so clear. Customer clear result. Then once you have a clear customer defined and you know the result they want, then you bring in a very clear mechanism to deliver the result.

[00:13:24] So where you become entrepreneurial, where you really start to blow up your impact and wealth and excitement is when you realize that as an entrepreneur you focus on clear customer clear result. Then once you have those two, you bring in experts to create your mechanisms for you. Elon Musk isn't building his cars.

[00:13:42] Elon Musk is in building his spaceships to go to outer space. He's like, I want to go to Mars hires team to do it. I want to build cars, hires team to do it. And so this massive leap, it can happen in entrepreneurship when you're like, okay, customer result, higher out mechanism, because what you're doing right [00:14:00] now is not wrong.

[00:14:00] In fact, it's very natural. You're looking to your skill and expertise to create a business from what you've done for 20 years. You sell real estate. This is my level of expertise. Well, how did I get into software at 22 years old and build software products for real estate brokers to recruit agents and build transaction management software that was so successful without ever running a real estate office?

[00:14:20] How I do that. I was 22 they're like, we'll solve your own problem. I don't have any problems. I'm 22 well, use your experience. I don't have any experience. What did I do? I obsessed with the customer. I obsessed with the result I hired mechanism. That's how I go into spaces and that's why business is one of the most exciting things in the world because now you're not limited to your expertise.

[00:14:39] You're limited to how well you can listen to help people. So it's so fun. Like it's so fun. Like I sit with my pregnant girlfriend and who's no longer pregnant. I am officially a father. Right. But so, yeah. Thank you. And I sit with her and I asked her about, you know, what is her most present problem? She talks about her nausea and I go through a five question process.

[00:15:01] To pull through and we get to a result that she wants, which is a little droplet she can take to help with her nausea. Now I've got a whole business. I could start clear customer, pregnant woman, clear result, cure nausea. Now I can go hire acupuncturist. I can hire a naturopathic doctors to create some concoction to help with nausea.

[00:15:17] I'm not an expert at nausea. So the thing is, and I'm starting to say this more often, but I want it to be said again here. Is that what you are right now is generally you're a technician. You're expert in gift. That's something you could be a brain surgeon and still be a technician because you're trading time for money in some fashion.

[00:15:33] You use your technical skills to trade time for money. Well, if you're a technician, you happen to write a book. Now you've got a little equity. You've got a little passive income because it's a book that works without you, but you're still operating a technician capacity. So the reason I have so much wealth and freedom is because I'm not a technician, but I had to rewire my nervous system around this.

[00:15:52] And so what happens is, so technician will trade time for money and entrepreneur. They trade time for freedom. That [00:16:00] freedom is a technical term called equity. So every single day I build equity. And so at the end of each day when I lay down and go to bed, I asked myself like, you know, was I happy? Did I'd love, you know, these things are things.

[00:16:11] And also I asked, did I build equity? And if I answer no, I get very sad because every single day I want to be building equity in something. So right now I'm recording this podcast with you. This podcast will go on. Someone will listen to it. It's equity. It works without me. Equity is something you work to build that can work without you.

[00:16:28] Equity is ownership in something. Equity is much easier to build than you think. So equity could be a blog post that you write at the end of the day. It's something that you create that lives without you or someone you hire an expert to create that you own because you hired out mechanism. So technician to entrepreneur, entrepreneurs, clear customer, clear result, hire mechanism.

[00:16:47] Technician is, what's my area of expertise? How can I help someone in this area of expertise? No real thought to customer, no real thought to result. So before we go on to making this business a reality, that's part of our starting point, and this is when entrepreneurship has this playground that's easy and fun and nourishing.

[00:17:08] Got

[00:17:08] Kathy: [00:17:08] it. You don't have to have all the knowledge if you feel it that you are a technician.

[00:17:13] dane: [00:17:13] Got it. Yeah. Having the knowledge, it can be a disadvantage cause it makes your brain automatically jumped to details that don't move a business forward. If you're an optometrist, you think about how the retina works before you think about a clear customer and how to get them a clear result.

[00:17:26] People want to see they don't care about their retina. I want to see clear. Tell me what's going on with your mind right now

[00:17:32] Kathy: [00:17:32] because I'm just realizing that. It really has nothing to do with exactly what I even began talking about. It's like it doesn't matter that you had this. It's like it's really about, okay, finding out what is it that people are saying they need or want

[00:17:48] dane: [00:17:48] or

[00:17:49] Kathy: [00:17:49] and fulfilling that.

[00:17:51] I don't have to know a darn thing about whatever it is. I just have to know how to get the right people to put it all together and make it happen.

[00:18:00] [00:18:00] dane: [00:18:00] Yep.

[00:18:00] Kathy: [00:18:00] That's all it is. I don't have to be the

[00:18:02] dane: [00:18:02] expert. No thanks. It hurts you if you are hurts

[00:18:07] Kathy: [00:18:07] me. If I am the expert,

[00:18:08] dane: [00:18:08] I can. It's more likely

[00:18:11] Kathy: [00:18:11] because you tend to, yeah.

[00:18:13] You start taking it too personal and saying, no, it needs to be like this and. This is my vision, and you remove all of that. Okay. I like

[00:18:22] dane: [00:18:22] this. What do you like about it?

[00:18:24] Kathy: [00:18:24] I could have 50 bits of

[00:18:29] dane: [00:18:29] what I like. Because your heart is to help people. Yeah. I

[00:18:33] Kathy: [00:18:33] want to create my freedom. I need to create my financial freedom.

[00:18:38] dane: [00:18:38] And you do that by building what, yes, you're doing good. And you know, at the end of every day you asked, did I build equity today?

[00:18:46] Kathy: [00:18:46] Okay. I just have to put the pieces together. It's really what it is.

[00:18:50] dane: [00:18:50] Yes. It really helps to have the proper orientation of business, you know? And people think that when they're a technician, they can finally be in business. But you can finally be in business when you're actually able to generate a result for someone. And you don't have to be the one. You have to have a paying

[00:19:06] Kathy: [00:19:06] customer.

[00:19:08] You have a paying customer.

[00:19:09] dane: [00:19:09] Yeah. That's in your business. You're officially in business. So this can be really difficult and it will probably become increasingly difficult for younger generations that are really uncomfortable with human to human intimacy because they're on Snapchat or Facebook. And. And I've been someone who struggles with human to human intimacy.

[00:19:25] I do really, really well at the beginning. I'm really nice and really open and excited. And then as people get to know me, like I notice unconsciously I start to close down and I get all this fear. And so I work on that with, you know, coaches or therapists and things like that, so I can stay in intimacy with people.

[00:19:39] So, you know, the technician comes up with the idea. Oh, this is my idea. This is my cool thing. And the entrepreneur looks at customers and what results they want and hires technicians to create ideas. So like for example, if you're now going to move to entrepreneur realm and start talking with folks, that's going to require intimacy, that's going to require a human to human [00:20:00] contact.

[00:20:00] If you find human to human contact, difficult. I recommend hiring therapists and coaches.

[00:20:09] If you'd like to hang out with people reading the start from zero book, listening to the start from zero podcast, listening to the book on tape and build businesses with them and do it with people together. Visit start from zero.com forward slash starters.

[00:20:27] And I find that actually using a therapist. For business issues. Is it ridiculously high ROI? For example, people have this asinine belief that they can't hire someone because they'll take money from them or they won't do as good of a job, or they'll have to micromanage them, et cetera, et cetera. So they have trust issues and they can go to a therapist about hiring an employee.

[00:20:51] If you were going to a therapist and get help with your blocks or on hiring people. You can build a multi, multimillion dollar business because you have teams and you're like, Oh, teens are going to have to babysit people and manage people. It's like that's all BS in your head. I have employees I don't even ever talk to cause I hire such wonderful people that they just do stuff without any guidance at all.

[00:21:10] Right? So it's an example of how you use the higher therapist. So people listen to, if you feel fear of talking with folks, if you have social anxieties and things like that. Get into therapy, get into a coach, get heal with that. So you can sit with someone, cause the joy of being next to someone and finding out what their pain is and then hearing what result they want and having it be so clear and so ordinary compared to whatever you're thinking.

[00:21:30] Like it's so liberating. So here's what we do now. And real estate, if you had a clear customer and you were clear on the result they wanted and it was more general than what they want, a home, you know, or you know, you ask an agent, who is your customer? Like my customer is anyone that wants to buy and sell a home.

[00:21:46] Right? It's like, well, okay, you probably barely eat by a hundred grand a year with that niche, if at all. So then you come to another realtor and you see what's your clear customer? They're like, actually. I'm a realtor for dog owners. I specialize [00:22:00] in helping find homes that are dog friendly, that have yards that are already fenced in, that lend themselves to having a dog in them over years.

[00:22:06] Or the family's still happy because there's a lot of different considerations for a home when there's a dog. So because they have a clear customer now, they can go on Facebook and they can run advertisements to anybody that likes anything about dog food that anybody ever uploads a dog with and say, I'm the official realtor.

[00:22:23] And they probably would have a dog as well if they love dogs as much, but they don't have to. You don't have to have a dog. But I love dogs and I love helping homeowners with dogs. In fact, I've actually written a little five page book on how to find the perfect home that keeps you and phyto happy, you know?

[00:22:37] And it's called keeping you in Fido. Happy the five questions you asked before you ever buy a home with your dog. And then like, that's a little free book. And so the realtor now advertises towards anybody on Facebook that has a dog in the area, and then they advertise to how to make sure you and fight over happy with your home.

[00:22:53] And now all of these people are now requesting this book. When they go in and request the book, it's all about the customer. So the customer says, what kind of a dog do you have? Cause the person loves to talk about their dog, you know, Oh, what's your dog's name? Right? It puts the name in the lead capture form.

[00:23:06] What kind of dog breed? Type it in. What's the dog's name? How old, you know, what color is it? Underscore? I just want to know about your dogs. It's so fun. Like that's listed on the form. And then say, what's your timeframe to purchase a home? Three months, six months, nine months, a year, two years. They can fill it out so.

[00:23:22] They know, and they don't have to be pushy because most realtors and most leads are like nine months out from purchase or something like this, but you get buying intent and then you have their name and email and say, where can we send this free book to? And they send this book to, and then it's a five page book.

[00:23:38] And then if they say three months or six months or nine months, the sequence has at two months in, you send an email and said, Hey, you told me that you were thinking about buying a home in about three months. And so it's about 30 days out from that. I just wanted to check and see if that's still right for you.

[00:23:51] If it is, hit me up. And that's all the email says. If it's six months, five months out, you say, Hey, and now it's all about the customer, and this would absolutely [00:24:00] swatter in real estate. It would do so well. And so like if you're running advertisements, let's say you get like you get the advertising somewhat effective and so you're at $5 a lead.

[00:24:10] So for $500 you get a hundred leads, a hundred people buying and reading your book out of a hundred leads. You'd probably have zero to five close in a year. A hundred leads, zero to five clothes. And so if zero to five close, that's anywhere between $500 to get a sale, or if five leads close a hundred dollars to get a sale.

[00:24:29] Meanwhile, your full business is automated. You don't even have like a brand logo website. It's a Facebook ad to an ebook and you're off to the races. So how many times could you spend $500 to get a sale? $500 to get a sale on the worst case. Maybe a hundred dollars per sale on the best case, and now I could go into real estate and do very well.

[00:24:49] My first year out of the gate, I'd probably be one of the top realtors in the area, not because I'm a good technical realtor because I'm a good entrepreneur and marketer. That's more marketing than entrepreneurship, but I sort of blend the two.

[00:25:01] Kathy: [00:25:01] Interesting. It's just finding the need of filling up. Yeah,

[00:25:04] dane: [00:25:04] that's it.

[00:25:05] And being able to feel that in your bones when you do it. But that's a fun real estate niche. And I actually know of realtors that do kind of position themselves as that. But you would do very well with just that one thing alone, probably as a realtor. So now with clear customer, clear result, clear mechanism.

[00:25:21] Now let's roll out your business. So you have a passion for nutrition. So tell me about the customers that you've had in this that have gotten the best results. Like what kind of a demographic are they and what result did they get?

[00:25:34] Kathy: [00:25:34] It's really been close friends, family. So it's far as demographic from, you know, a senior citizen to a millennial.

[00:25:44] Just by my own son. I taught him just basics that he was able to take and run with it, and he dropped over a hundred pounds. He didn't exercise. He just changed how he ate every day. Wasn't starving himself, but he made different [00:26:00] choices. Again, and then my niece, the situation with her, I had someone else, just different choices, help them.

[00:26:08] They was so excited and came back to me and thanked me because their cholesterol was now in better shape than it was before. They made just changes in what they were eating with their diet. I think that's it, and it was a conversation I had with an endocrinologist who said to me. The majority of people that have appointments with me and come in here and complain about aches and pains in their bodies are all food related.

[00:26:35] That just made me say, so that's a big deal. People just don't understand what they're eating.

[00:26:42] dane: [00:26:42] What were the content of the book be? If you wrote one or like a 10 minute YouTube video that was teaching, what would the content be. I think the

[00:26:49] Kathy: [00:26:49] content would be just to understand the basics of maybe processed foods versus natural sugars versus not.

[00:26:57] It's something I need to dumb it down for people. I know that it needs to be done

[00:27:02] dane: [00:27:02] good. So let's apply mechanisms result thinking. So my brain checks out when you say. Sugars and this like my unconscious response, I can't help, but I'm just like, I just go.

[00:27:14] Kathy: [00:27:14] So it's just giving an example. My thought was if someone says.

[00:27:19] Well, I like to eat donuts. Okay, so let's find a food that can be, it's not going to be the same as you doing it, but in place of, or I might even be able to hook you up with a recipe that could be almost like it, but whatever. It's just finding something that'll satisfy you like the donut. Well, I think as far as dumbing it down for them, I kind of almost call it a flip into something else.

[00:27:44] dane: [00:27:44] But what I'm wanting you to do.

[00:27:50] So the content of the video would be, you mentioned three things, something about sugars and what were the three things again?

[00:27:57] Kathy: [00:27:57] Okay. I think the biggest issue people have is with sugars. [00:28:00] Cause that's what makes it

[00:28:02] dane: [00:28:02] so you just mentioned the result of sugar. It makes your body hurt. I don't care about sugar.

[00:28:08] I care about the result of sugar that makes my body hurt. So what you want to do is flip your technician mind and put entrepreneur first. So when I asked the content of your video, I want you to try and say something like, well first we get your body to stop hurting by showing you the root cause of it and how to easily change it.

[00:28:29] And you don't even have to mention sugar best if you don't, because people are so addicted to sugar, you're going to get them running for the Hills. If you mentioned no sugar or if you mentioned sugar causes hurt, I don't hurt bad enough. I think I'll keep you just sugar. So when I talk about listening, here's what happens.

[00:28:43] You've got to listen. Sometimes that means not even hearing what they say. So if you say, you know, first no sugar or first we gotta talk about sugar and this, and you watch the person check out. What happens is usually you try to talk more or talk harder or try to convince, but that's not listening. You listened by seeing, they're checked out.

[00:28:59] She say, Oh, what's happening for you? And they're like, well, I really like eating my chocolate and I don't want to give up my chocolate. And you see how sad they are. And immediately you try and go and fix it and you're like, well we don't have to get your chocolate. You could do dah, dah, dah. We, you're still, you're not listening cause you don't have an agenda.

[00:29:15] You have an agenda to get them to agree with your value system. So let's try and do a mock example. So I mentioned like a brief teaching on sugar to me for 30 seconds. Nice.

[00:29:24] Kathy: [00:29:24] So if you like to eat a lot of foods, like donuts, pastries, potatoes, rice, those are the things that have in turn into a lot of sugar in your body.

[00:29:36] You wouldn't think it, but it does. So you can trade it off for other things that'll still give you sugar but different kind so that you won't feel the aches and pains from the other types of foods you've been eating.

[00:29:51] dane: [00:29:51] Now as someone who's interested in listening, I think you should probably say something like that to make sure that I'm actually being a good [00:30:00] communicator.

[00:30:03] If you'd like to learn how to make money and you need a path to do it, visit start from zero.com and you'll see a whole context of how you can actually get started. There's a three phase process that you can go through. If you're a beginner, intermediate, or advanced, go there. It'll tell you exactly what to do.

[00:30:20] Where to go and how to get started, and you don't need money for some of the options. And if you do have money, you can buy some of the other options. It's all laid out for you with crystal clear clarity@startfromzero.com where do you go and what do you do? You'll find out there,

[00:30:40] can you reflect back to me what you heard so I can be sure that I was clear. Try asking me that and I'll reflect back to you what I heard.

[00:30:47] Kathy: [00:30:47] So to make sure I'm a good communicator. Could you back to me what you heard?

[00:30:53] dane: [00:30:53] Yeah, I heard that stuff. I thought it was good for me. It could be turning into sugar like potatoes and rice, but I'm unclear on what that actually means and.

[00:31:03] As soon as you said that, I couldn't really pay attention to much of anything else cause I was so worried about the things that I was eating. How was that for you to hear her?

[00:31:12] Kathy: [00:31:12] That's I understand because it's true. We all receive things differently. I learned that over the years in my own business, so I get that everybody's totally different how they receive everything.

[00:31:24] And it's all about how it's communicated to them.

[00:31:27] dane: [00:31:27] I can give you a little bit more articulate distinctions on this. Let me explain something. So I felt a subtle break in rapport when you made an assumption about everybody receives things differently. Like for some reason, like I went numb. I was like, she's assuming everyone's experience and everyone's different.

[00:31:44] It might actually be like 30 30 30 it might be 10 10 10 10 10 but not everybody, every single person was different. So like part of my brain was like, I don't, I didn't trust what you were saying. I've spent a significant amount of time in this space, so. Basically what I've learned is that when [00:32:00] people speak, it goes into your ear.

[00:32:01] When it goes into your ear, it goes first into your emotional brain. The emotional brain is where the self image is stored. Then once it goes past the emotional brain, the self image, then it comes up to the intellect to be processed. So by the time it reaches the intellect, it's been tainted by the self image and the emotional brain.

[00:32:19] So if I say being an employee is risky and being an entrepreneur is really safe but employee's risky, it's going to go into your brain. And if you have a belief that employees safe, it's going to be, it's not going to work cause it hits that first. So I would encourage you to think about it that way instead of everybody receives things differently.

[00:32:40] So, and when you're communicating, like, you know, like if someone says something and you get triggered, you don't want to be triggered and you can't help it. Yeah. That's why partly why it goes in and hits your self image. You know, I had a friend of mine, he doesn't usually go to the bar. He was out as for this, John stay at the bar and a guy started hitting on his girl and like Pete was very kind about stopping it and then the guy started attacking him and saying, there's no way you could take care of a woman like that.

[00:33:05] It was like attacking his masculinity and my friend is amazing. He knows who he is, really knows who he is. So he's just as an unfazed. He's like, Oh, okay. Cause when it went into his ear, his self image was clear. But if he had sexual performance issues, if he had, I'm not worthy of taking care of a woman issues.

[00:33:25] If any of that, he woulda got triggered and probably got in a fight with that guy. Yeah. So when you're speaking with people. Like, I've got another friend of mine, he wants to cause a revolution in the fitness world as well, cause he says, we're eating food that's not engineered for our bodies and it's making us sick.

[00:33:40] So we got him clear on his customer. He's actually one of the first few calls on this podcast, but he's going to go after people that are suffering with diabetes. Clear customer, clear pain, clear result. They don't want to be affected by diabetes. Well, it's true. So when he was talking to me and another person, he's like, yeah, I don't eat carbs.

[00:33:57] And that changed my life and I looked down on my plate. I was like, [00:34:00] Oh, I saw, I felt guilty. I felt like, God, I don't want to get rid of my carbs. There are parts of my body, I do want to still keep asleep. This was at the time, and I've made quite a bit of changes since then. Thankfully, the guy next to me was just challenged down on a burger and I got him to get out of his head a little bit and into his heart.

[00:34:18] The guy that's passionate about no carbs, and I got him talking with this other guy and the guy. I was able to create a vulnerableness face for the gentlemen to say. I am really scared of giving up carbs because they create a lot of comfort for me. So he says, eating carbs is really what created a lot of health for me.

[00:34:35] That goes into this guy's ear, hits his belief system, threatens his safety, comes up to his brain and his intellect says, Oh, this is a bad idea. And then if he's not conscious, he believes the giving up carbs is probably a bad idea. It's not. It's probably good, but it's because it goes through. So once you understand that.

[00:34:54] He ain't really here and stuff, but through your self image, it can be a lot more objective. Wow. This will help with a lot of the persuasion because there are frameworks for persuasion, but in order to be effective with persuasion, I think the foundation of it is listening because you want to always be aware of the impact of your communication.

[00:35:12] So you just ask, so what did you hear.

[00:35:14] Kathy: [00:35:14] That's a big learning curve for me right there to ask. Yes and everything,

[00:35:19] dane: [00:35:19] and also listening doesn't just mean hearing them talk. It means when you see them checking out, you're like, Oh, what's going on for you? So you have to clear customers, for example, and you have a general methodology of nutrition that can rapidly transform someone's body just by making a few simple changes.

[00:35:37] When you were talking about your son, you were actually doing a great job selling. You said, I had my son do a few things. They're really simple. He lost a hundred pounds. That is a huge clear result. And then you even said, and he didn't even have to go to the gym, he just changed what he ate. You're going to have a lot of people's attention.

[00:35:56] And you haven't mentioned anything about mechanism. It's all the end result. [00:36:00] So if you wanted to really wrap this in a nice package, what I recommend is creating a really simple book you've probably got before and after pictures of your son and he's going to be on the cover. You're going to say how my son lost a hundred pounds without going to the gym, how my son lost a hundred pounds without working out.

[00:36:19] Then the surprising truth. The food industry does not want you to know the surprising truth food manufacturers keep from you, and then you've got a picture of him, a hundred pounds heavier and a hundred pounds lighter. Why do we put that on the cover? Visual as a good visual, but what is it also selling or demonstrating results?

[00:36:39] Yes. Yeah. You don't put a picture of a meal plan on there. You don't put a picture of a kitchen on there. You don't put a picture of food on there, but that's what we do. If you humor yourself and just go to weightwatchers.com you'll see nothing but results. Right? Jenny lost 42 pounds in eight weeks. One of my favorite new examples I went through the other day was Dave Ramsey.

[00:37:02] So Dave Ramsey has like the top podcast on iTunes. What's Dave Ramsey's big results that he sells? Do you know by chance

[00:37:09] Kathy: [00:37:09] to teach people their finances and how to get out of debt

[00:37:13] dane: [00:37:13] debt free, get out of debt? What do they learn their finances for, for the result of getting out of debt? That's his market.

[00:37:22] Hmm. So if you have someone who's pretty comfortable and you try to teach them financial prosperity, but they're comfortable, they might not be that. But someone who's 50 grand in debt and feels that every day of their life and it's a miserable pain. It's way easy to sell, to become debt free to them.

[00:37:36] They're very motivated. One of my favorite examples of a real estate agent who was doing deals, his customer was so clear, he said, he only works with people that do 10 31 exchanges. So for those listening, 10 31 exchange, that's really cool. Real estate law. It makes me wonder if the tax code was written by real estate people because real estate has all these amazing tax benefits.

[00:37:57] So 10 31 exchange means you could [00:38:00] sell a property, not pay any taxes on it. If you roll the earnings into a new property, is it within 90 days? Yes. Okay. So in 90 days, so if you sell a $5 million property and you have 5 million in profit, if you buy a new property in 90 days, you don't get taxed on that.

[00:38:15] So you can keep your gains growing tax free until you sell eventually one day, however you have 90 days to buy. Otherwise you have a $2 million tax bill. So he said there were like my favorite clients in the world because he never asked to call him. They're always calling him cause there's so much pain and so much urgency with that customer.

[00:38:32] Clear customer. Clear result, knock at tax mechanism is who cares? Just get the money into a better deal that's more money, which is surprisingly difficult to match. But working with people at 10 31 exchanges. What a great niche for real estate. So people that are debt free, so if you go to Dave ramsey.com you'll see it.

[00:38:52] If you're going to weightwatchers.com it's a picture of a person with a result. If you go to Dave Ramsey, it's a picture of a couple holding a banner that says. $40,000 debt free in 23 months. It's a result in a period of time. If you really want to dress up, result, put a period of time in there. There are some savvy realtors that do this.

[00:39:11] Your home sold in 90 days or all buy it result time period. Guarantee Domino's hot fresh pizza in 30 minutes or it's free. Result time period. Guarantee. Realtors do it. Result time period. Guarantee. I did it with selling real estate. Recruit two agents a week without cold calling or rejection, right? So result of time period address, objection, offer guarantee.

[00:39:35] So this book sells a result. Dave Ramsey's number one show, he's got a clear result debt free. Why is he number one? His mechanisms are pretty plain. You know, Oh, that's no ball. Pay off the highest interest rate credit card first, or however it works. Like they're like the most ordinary on innovative. It's tired.

[00:39:55] Financial advice you could find in a hundred of the books on Amazon. Why is Dave number [00:40:00] one, he's a beast with the results.

[00:40:04] Kathy: [00:40:04] Is that what it is? It's almost like a cult of

[00:40:07] dane: [00:40:07] sorts. Yeah, he's got it. So you know, people kind of worry about competition, but like from one of my mentors perspectives, there could be five people that say the same thing and they'll all attract different people that just need that person to say the same thing.

[00:40:19] That's just how it works. Like we need competition because some people just going to resonate with, we can all say, live your greatness, live your Destiny's purpose. Tony Robbins says that Lewis house says that unable to attract different people, they attract the people that need that frequency. So you can stand and say your thing and know that the people that need to come to you will, I mean, Dave would take more assessment than to saying, Oh, he's a beast with results.

[00:40:42] But that's certainly helps because if you look at the other folks, they're really heavy on being technicians. They're really heavy on their technical process. Dave is really heavy about a result. You could probably say with a safe amount of certainty. I mean, is there any wonder WeightWatchers is almost a billion, if not a billion dollar company, and they have pictures of results.

[00:41:00] And then Dave Ramsey is huge number one on iTunes and he's got pictures of results. Yeah. So you see a guy lost a hundred pounds on the cover and you say, without working out, you have my full attention. So now your next step is when you're working with your clients for selling your homes, you're going to do a soft pitch to them.

[00:41:20] You say, how passionate are you about nutrition and fitness as it relates to longevity and having good energy? Like I know we're buying a home, but how passionate are you in general about like nutrition, fitness, and having good energy. Like if they say really interested, not so interested at all. I don't really think about it.

[00:41:38] Do not mention your book. But if they say, you know, it's a big passion of mine, and you say, you know, my son lost a hundred pounds without working out because of a few fundamental shifts in what he eats. So I put that into a book. I'm actually looking for feedback on it. Does that sound compelling to read?

[00:41:55] And they say no. He said, okay, that's totally fine. Dang, it didn't work, but that's fine. And [00:42:00] they'll probably say yes. So then you start getting some feedback on your book. It's a real simple, like it's a Google doc. You say it's not printed yet. I'll send you a link to a Google doc to skim. So they skim it.

[00:42:09] They give you feedback. After you show it to four or five people, they ask questions, they offer your feedback. It starts getting flushed out into a book. Now it becomes a PDF. So now you offer the book for free, right? You say, Hey, I've got this thing. You know, my son lost a hundred pounds. I didn't want to keep it a secret.

[00:42:24] He didn't even have to work out. Would you like to know how he did it? Like, yes. You don't tell them, how do you say, I share how with this book, I could email it to you if you like, and you just give it out free for awhile, you know? And then maybe at the end of the book you say, if you want any help with this, I'm happy to coach you.

[00:42:39] One session is $300 and you'll have all you need. So you just. Free book to one on one coaching. And if you just keep offering it to the real estate clients who have a passion for nutrition and energy, and maybe you find used nutrition and no one's really saying yes to that. So then you're like, find ways to gauge interest.

[00:42:56] And then when they express interest, share the book for free, get feedback, offer it into one on one coaching. It'll evolve to the point where it becomes a book you could sell on Amazon. That you have coaching on the back end. It's just this kind of side thing, and then you might find a certain niche of customers really resonates with you, but I think a lot of people are gonna want to know how to lose a hundred pounds without going to the gym.

[00:43:16] Kathy: [00:43:16] Yeah, that's true. That's the key. And this has just opened my mind to other things where now I'm like, Oh my gosh.

[00:43:23] dane: [00:43:23] Like what?

[00:43:24] Kathy: [00:43:24] I, just things that I had just running to in my business with people and my customer is the boomer

[00:43:33] dane: [00:43:33] boomers. Good customers too. Yeah,

[00:43:36] Kathy: [00:43:36] I mean, I've got a great referral business and it's boomers that I work with and we are all, I say we because I'm one of them now.

[00:43:45] Everybody's going through the same things emotionally right now as far as their thought process of. Time to sell a bigger house, time to make a move and simplifying their lives. And I see a [00:44:00] pattern happening here with everybody. So now I'm going to be thinking about that.

[00:44:05] dane: [00:44:05] Very good. All good work today, and that'll be a really useful book or a really useful guide.

[00:44:11] And you'll be much more than a realtor.

[00:44:12] Kathy: [00:44:12] Exactly. Awesome.

[00:44:14] dane: [00:44:14] Good work today.

[00:44:17] So for years, people have been asking me, what's the big secret? How do I do this? And the answer is simple. My life took off when I had mentors. Too many people try to do this stuff alone and get stuck and give up. Listen, if you haven't succeeded in business or entrepreneurship yet, it's simple.

[00:44:34] You haven't failed enough yet. You haven't been around enough mentors yet. If you combine failure with mentorship. You will fly. I had someone say, why are so many people so more successful than me? How come I can't get this right? And they said, well, how many times you failed? He's like, wow. A lot of times I'm like, have you failed more than 10 times?

[00:44:50] He said, no. I was like, you haven't failed enough yet. You haven't been around mentors enough yet. Failure is how you learn. Michael Jordan has missed so many game winning shots. You've got to get out there and fail and how are you going to do that if you're all by yourself, all alone, beating yourself up in your own thoughts?

[00:45:05] Listen, I'm going to give you access to my board of advisors, my board of advisors. That I talk to sometimes every day. I'm going to give you access to them every month, live for you to ask questions and get your mind set on straight. They're going to ask you questions that are hard for you to answer.

[00:45:21] Those are the kinds of people you want in your life. You're also going to get access to not only the board of advisors, but my entire community, the start from zero community, all the entrepreneurs that are practicing these things, building these businesses. You'll get access to this community and this board of advisors and much more with the new program we've launched called startup.

[00:45:40] From xero.com forward slash starters and you can see how you can get access to my board of advisors and ask them anything you want. Monthly, you get automated accountability to stay focused. You get a community of other people all building businesses with a start from zero methodology. And guess what?

[00:45:56] You get kicked out of this community if you do [00:46:00] not take action. So it is serious people. So if you'd like access to that information about that, go to start from zero.com forward slash starters and it's about time. We get together and strengthen each other and fail together and pick each other back up together and show each other each other's blind spots and ask the hard questions and drive each other to that golden finish line of a business that you don't have to work in a business that provides freedom.

[00:46:25] So you can sit around on a Tuesday and watch HBO if you want. All right, start from zero.com forward slash starters.