Liminality and waiting for the falling tide

Arthur uses a fishing metaphor to explain liminal moments and the power of acting during transitional periods.

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Episode notes

In this episode of Office Hours, I sit down with my friend Hoda Kotb and talk about how we meet change when it shows up uninvited. Hoda has lived through transitions that resist simple narratives. Early rejection in her career. Public reinvention. Serious illness. Grief. Becoming a parent later in life. Each chapter forced a decision about how to move forward when there were no clear answers.

Hoda is known to millions as the longtime co-anchor of NBC’s Today Show and as the host of Making Space. In our conversation, those titles matter less than the life behind them. What connects us to Hoda’s story is not her achievements, but the ordinary human moments that shaped her values and continue to guide her choices. I hope this conversation leaves you not only inspired by Hoda’s life but also more willing to meet your own with honesty, courage, and care.

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Brought to you by:

• David Protein—The most effective portable protein on the planet http://www.davidprotein.com/arthur ⁠

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Where to find Hoda Kotb:

• X: https://x.com/hodakotb

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hodakotb

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HodaKotb

• Website: https://www.hodakotb.com

• Podcast: https://www.today.com/podcasts/making-space

Where to find Arthur Brooks:

• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠