Kaen: This will probably be the last defy episode for quite a while, not because it's not an important topic. But we don't want to dilute the focus of what macro voices is. After this with josh crumb, we're probly get ahead back to our usual macro focus. i wouldn't worry too much about bitcoin. I don't think that's going to be any bigger than it already is. decentralized finance and the tokenization of the global financial system is going to be the trend for the next 20 years. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.