When he started in tech, there was a general belief that old media was dead. The New York Times days were completely numbered. Buzzfeed as clownish and silly as it looks just because of the quizzes and whatnot,. They were doing serious news as well. And I think if you can just get in DMS, things kind of chill out and that's, that's beautiful. But I have a lot of that with people in media now where for whatever tribal reason, it's just not good.

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