I disagree with both of you apparently about the the value of hatred or or vengeful feelings in certain kinds of situations so I'm not as Dave seems to be willing to concede even those stronger emotions. If it's an empirical claim then I think it's just obviously false and there's a whole history of counter examples to that if it's a moral claim that's fine then make the claim but but this opens onto a wider discussion about what morality is, he says.

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