I'll come down to love and courage being real. I think talking about characteristics like that seems to be indispensable in understanding human beings. Accepting that this is us deciding how to decide, define terms rather than us learning new things about the universe. It might be a crude version, but I think it's a set of conditional statements,. But then, you know, doesn't there seem to be this sense in which mathematics is built into the world because there's this close connection between abstractions and application and reality? This is a very difficult issue.

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