The Consequences of Overusing Labels of Shame

One year after her resignation from the New York Times, Bari sits down with author (and America's most famous Stoic) Ryan Holiday to talk about how the media broke and who is to blame for breaking it. Holiday knows about fake news: In his 2012 bestseller, “Trust Me, I'm Lying,” he explains how he manipulated the media on behalf of himself and his clients, including Tucker Max and Dov Charney of American Apparel. Holiday is also the author of "Conspiracy," the story of how billionaire Peter Thiel brought down the gossip site Gawker. We discuss the unintended consequences of Thiel's success, the economics of outrage, Stoicism, opening a bookstore during COVID, and much more.

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