E48: Liron Shapira on the Case for Pausing AI
"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg
Exploring Divergent Views on AI and Future Optimization
Exploring Robin Hanson's controversial view that entities we create, such as AI, will shape the future, sparking a debate on the potential impact and risks of this perspective.
This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Liron Shapira to discuss the case against further AI development, why Effective Altruism doesn’t deserve its reputation, and what is misunderstood about nuclear weapons. Upstream is sponsored by Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.
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LINKS
Pause AI: https://pauseai.info/
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X / TWITTER:
@liron (Liron)
@eriktorenberg (Erik)
@upstream__pod
@turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro and Liron's Background
(01:08) Liron's Thoughts on the e/acc Perspective
(03:59) Why Liron Doesn't Want AI to Take Over the World
(06:02) AI and the Future of Humanity
(10:40) AI is An Existential Threat to Humanity
(14:58) On Robin Hanson's Grabby Aliens Theory
(17:22) Sponsor - Brave
(18:20) AI as an Existential Threat: A Debate
(23:01) AI and the Potential for Global Coordination
(27:03) Liron's Reaction on Vitalik Buterin's Perspective on AI and the Future
(31:16) Power Balance in Warfare: Defense vs Offense
(32:20) Nuclear Proliferation in Modern Society
(38:19) Why There's a Need for a Pause in AI Development
(43:57) Is There Evidence of AI Being Bad?
(44:57) Liron On George Hotz's Perspective
(49:17) Timeframe Between Extinction
(50:53) Humans Are Like Housecats Or White Blood Cells
(53:11) The Doomer Argument
(01:00:00) The Role of Effective Altruism in Society
(01:03:12) Wrap
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This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
Producer: Sam Kaufman
Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda
For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact Sam@turpentine.co
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