The Price That We Have to Pay in Order Not to Choose Right

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Yayalon: I believe that when time will come, and unfortunately, and this is, you know, the sad aspect of my optimism, that the time will come only when we shall face violence. He says he would prefer to see Israel as a Jewish democracy even if it means giving back some land in order to do so. "I'm not a Rabbi, and I don't know how many of his followers will accept this answer"

Ami Ayalon is the former head of the Shin Bet, Israel’s internal intelligence agency, and former commander of the Israeli navy. After his retirement from the Shin Bet, Ayalon served as a member of the Knesset and co-founded the grassroots peace initiative The People’s Voice with Palestinian philosopher Sari Nusseibeh. He is the author, with Anthony David, of Friendly Fire: How Israel Became Its Own Worst Enemy and the Hope for Its Future.

On the 75th anniversary of Israel’s founding, Yascha Mounk and Ami Ayalon discuss the roots of today’s democratic crisis in the country; lessons from Ayalon’s lifelong career in Israel’s defense and intelligence communities; and why Palestinian hope is an Israeli security asset.

Editor’s Note: This conversation was recorded in April, before the most recent round of violence in Israel and the Gaza Strip.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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