Rethinking Government Spending: Insights from Modern Monetary Theory

Welcome to the Urgent Futures podcast, the show that finds signal in the noise. Each week, I sit down with leading thinkers whose research, concepts, and questions clarify the chaos, from culture to the cosmos.

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My guest this week is Michael Mezzatesta.

To say the economy is complex is an understatement. It’s among the most complex systems humanity has ever concocted, full of high-level math and specialized theory that makes it impenetrable to outsiders. Factor in the layers of financial apparatus and we’re talking about something that the average person is right to assume is totally beyond their grasp.

And yet, it’s absolutely vital that the public understands the basics of what’s going on and how we can participate in making change. This is what makes economics communicators so essential, and why I’m thrilled to share this conversation with Michael Mezzatesta. Over the past few years, he’s used his background as an economist to make economics and finance topics accessible to the public, and not just any economics topics, but specifically those related to growth and climate change. Over 99% of scientists agree that climate change is human-caused—and that the next few years will be critical in mitigating the effects of global heating caused by greenhouse gas emissions.

To take meaningful action, humanity will necessarily need to try a range of actions, and one critical lever is the economy. How might democratic societies induce systems change toward deemphasizing growth and prioritizing justice and wellbeing?

Yes, the scale of the problem is immense, but there are ideas, theories, and tactics that many of us have never considered or grasped in any depth. I believe that encountering these ideas, and being shown that we can understand them, is a critical first step toward generating action. This is why I view Michael’s work as so important: it builds baseline awareness and understanding, and invites solidarity and the belief that change is not only possible, but maybe even a lot closer to realizing than we’d ever imagine.

BIOMichael Mezzatesta is an economist and educator using social media to spread ideas for a better future. His videos analyze sustainability through the lenses of economics, finance, and culture. By highlighting intersectional issues and pushing for systemic solutions, Michael encourages people to think differently about climate change – and to imagine better futures. Previously, Michael got an economics degree from Stanford and spent a few years working as a consultant at McKinsey & Company before jumping into growth & marketing work at climate/technology startups in Los Angeles. He’s currently involved in a few organizations – including Earth4All, the Wellbeing Economy Alliance, and the Post Growth Institute – that advocate for economic justice and systems change. 

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Guests on Urgent Futures are experts across art, science, media, technology, AI, philosophy, economics, mathematics, anthropology, journalism, and more. We live in complex times; these are the voices who will help you orient to emerging futures.

CREDITS: This podcast is edited and produced by Adam Labrie and me, Jesse Damiani. Adam Labrie also directed, shot, and edited the video version of the podcast, which is available on YouTube. The podcast is presented by Reality Studies. If you appreciate the work I’m doing, please subscribe and share it with someone you think would enjoy it.

Find video episodes of Urgent Futures at: youtube.com/@UrgentFutures. Past conversations include Taylor Lorenz, Lia Halloran & Kip Thorne, Cherie Hu, Lisa Messeri, Legacy Russell, William E. Rees, and more.