A lot of what we're talking about, a lot of the kind of critiques of anti-racism are temporary. And to race them, stems I think, and not from, you know, malice or anything like that. It comes from that sense of social pessimism, the pessimism about being able to overcome racism. The last 40, 50 years has shown it is the possibilities of overcoming racism - but certainly we've been merely rated racism to an extent that would have been unimaginable 50 years ago,. 60 years ago, 70 years ago.

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