I think I'm pretty sure I was the first person to academically talk about mindfulness at the University of Toronto within a classroom setting, like lecturing on it. So published on that as well. And I practice, I've been practicing many forms of mindfulness and ecology of practices since 1991. It also points to the fact of why you need an ecology of mindfulness practices. You shouldn't equate mindfulness with meditation. I think that's a primary mistake.

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