
The Past, Present, and Future of Building on Apple — John Gruber, Daring Fireball
Sub Club by RevenueCat
Apple's Dual Role in the App Ecosystem
This chapter discusses the challenges Apple faces as both a platform provider and a competitor to third-party apps, highlighting the historical context of its relationship with developers. It features a case study on Apple's password management evolution and reflects on the innovative culture fostered by developers that led to the success of the iPhone and the App Store.
On the podcast I talk with John about the fascinating 40-year history of Apple’s developer relations, how almost going bankrupt in the 1990s shaped today’s control-focused approach, and why we might need an ‘App Store 3.0’ reset.
Top Takeaways:
🕹️ The 1980s: Apple’s developer DNA was born
Apple’s earliest wins came from nurturing third-party developers, even spinning off its own apps to avoid competing with outsiders.
💸 Microsoft saved Apple (literally)
Apple’s near-bankruptcy in the ’90s made them both humble and wary—forever shaping how they deal with developers and competition.
🍎 From “please build for us” to “we choose you”
WWDC 2008 saw Apple begging for apps and evangelist emails on slides; today, it’s the other way around.
🖥️ The “Delicious Era” fueled iPhone success
Mac indie devs (Panic, Delicious Monster, Bare Bones) built a design-obsessed, passionate community—setting the stage for the iPhone App Store boom.
🚪 App Store 1.0: A new world for indies
For the first time, solo developers could launch businesses from home. No server costs, no payments hassle—just build, submit, and sell.
🏦 Apple’s rules got stricter as the App Store grew
As the App Store became a services giant, the partnership vibe faded. Developers went from partners to “users” of Apple’s marketplace.
📉 App Store math now feels upside down
Today, indie devs can pay Apple millions, while giants like Meta pay almost nothing. The fee logic and incentives don’t fit 2025.
⏳ The platform needs an “App Store 3.0” reset
John and David call for a new era: lower fees, clearer rules, and Apple acting as a true platform partner—not just a toll booth.
🔄 Developer enthusiasm is Apple’s long-term moat
Apple risks becoming a “legacy only” giant if it loses developer goodwill. The most important apps are still built by outsiders.
👥 A generational handoff is coming
With Apple’s senior leadership nearing retirement, now is the time to set new priorities: empower developers, invest in the ecosystem, and ensure Apple’s platforms stay vibrant for decades to come.
About John Gruber:
🚀 Author of the Daring Fireball blog, host of The Talk Show, and co-creator of Markdown.
🍎 John is a lifelong Apple fan and is passionate about discussing all things iPhone, App Store, and developer relations.
💡 “I feel like Apple is dwelling on the success and the innovation that completely revolutionized the phone industry […] for too long and that they should move on and build something else new.”
Resources:
- Bill Gates in 1984 promoting Apple Macintosh
- Bill Gates on stage with Steve Jobs in 1983
- The Macintosh Way — Guy Kawasaki
- Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X — Aaron Hillegass
- Daring Fireball
Follow us on X:
- David Barnard - @drbarnard
- Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
- RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
- SubClub - @SubClubHQ
Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Apple Kremlinology: Why understanding Apple requires a special kind of obsession - and a long memory.
[4:58] Fanboys unite: David shares how his love of Apple led him from audio engineer to App Store developer.
[8:48] Turning point: John’s link to David’s iPhone mileage app in 2008 helped jumpstart his indie career.
[13:37] Joz, Phil, and Eddy: The developer relations and most of the App Store are overseen by three Apple execs who joined in the ‘80s.
[17:01] The crossroads: How Apple’s early decision to unbundle first-party apps in the ‘80s encouraged third-party innovation.
[21:25] Hands off: Why Apple’s decade-long retreat from building software paved the way for a thriving developer ecosystem.
[27:07] Vision parallels: John compares Vision Pro’s slow start to the original Mac - and explains why it doesn’t have to be perfect (yet).
[30:32] Betting on the future: How Apple playing the long-game is their biggest advantage in launching and sustaining new platforms.
[33:55] What comes after the Mac: The ‘90s were filled with failed next-gen Apple platforms - and it almost killed the company.
[36:47] Burned by success: Apple’s trauma from near-bankruptcy shaped their need to control developer relationships.
[41:13] The App Store revolution: Why the 2008 launch of the App Store wasn’t just a business move, it was a turning point for software itself.
[45:07] Developer momentum: How passionate indie devs and Mac software of the 2000s primed the iPhone for success.
[53:46] iPhone jailbreakers: Why the jailbreak community may have pushed Apple to launch the SDK sooner than expected.
[57:39] App Store 2.0: In 2016, Apple dropped some commission rates, opened up subscriptions, and kicked off a new era.
[1:03:03] Time for 3.0: Why David believes the App Store needs another reset - and a shift in mindset.
[1:08:26] Humility and hardware: Steve Jobs’ 1997 apology to a developer at WWDC still echoes - and it’s exactly what developers need to hear in 2025.
[1:13:30] Holding on too tight: How Apple’s fear of losing control is costing them developer goodwill.
[1:26:35] A legacy worth protecting: The iPhone isn’t going anywhere - but without change, Apple could become a legacy business as other platforms take over.
[1:32:06] Red flags on Vision Pro: Why developers aren’t building for Apple’s newest platform - and why that should worry Apple.
[1:39:18] The indie paradox: How small developers pay millions to Apple, while giants like Meta pay almost nothing.
[1:41:39] Fluke of history: Schiller once floated capping App Store revenue at $1B. What if Jobs had said yes?
[1:44:35] The trust gap: Could a more generous App Store policy bring Netflix and others back?
[1:47:08] It’s not too late: Why Apple should proactively change the App Store instead of waiting on regulation.
[1:57:26] Developer vibes: A simpler App Store (with clearer rules and lower fees) could renew trust and drive innovation.
[2:00:29] Bigger than profit: Making great soft...