13min chapter

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096: What Most Men Get Wrong | Interview with Jay and Kris Vallotton Manhood Q&A

BraveCo Podcast

CHAPTER

Strong Convictions and Compassion

The speakers discuss the tension between holding strong convictions and showing compassion towards others, using Jesus as an example. They emphasize the importance of not shaming others and using conviction to help others find their way.

00:00
Speaker 2
And I was thinking of a bunch of different subjects that I like to talk about with you adversity and how to build strength and how to be a strong man. But actually, I got a whole bunch of questions from Brave Co. Men that they wanted to ask you. And so I thought it'd be cool if we go through and ask some of those questions and I can throw some of my questions in there too.
Speaker 1
So it's not very often that we get to ask you any questions. And I can go. Next question. Yeah.
Speaker 2
We can pass on questions if we want. Yeah, we don't have to. Yeah. So, okay, we're just going to jump right in. Okay, let's do that. All right. How do you balance the tension between being a man who's uncompromising and character and faith yet still have compassion for people around you?
Speaker 1
Well, I think Jesus did a great job in that he hung out with sinners and he didn't hang out with them and compromise his values. And it's funny because they invited him to parties. Yeah. So, you know, I think it speaks to us of love that transcends opinions. And I think you can hold to your opinions. And I mean, you can have strong convictions. I don't think I don't think I don't think it's a question of should you be, you know, like, undecided on passionate, on important subjects? I think it's like, how do you walk out your life of conviction? Yeah. And what do you require by the people? And one of the things I think that happens when you're my age, you know, how old is that down? I'll be 69 next year this in January. Ooh, you're close.
Speaker 3
You're pushing on
Speaker 1
70, really. Really pushing on 70. I think what happens is you realize that life is a journey and that, you know, you're meeting people on different places that journey, let's say that the journey is a thousand miles. And you meet somebody that has, you know, from your perspective, really wrong positions. I mean, you know, perspectives and convictions. And you realize, like, I'm person may be 20. And, you know, you have 48 years of different life experiences from, you know, from things that happen in the Lord to things that happen in your life. And those things, you know, they all shape you. And you're meeting someone on that thousand mile journey. And so, you know, to treat them because they, because you feel different about, you know, morality or different about family or different about maybe they don't even know the Lord. Yeah. And, you know, I think that I think that Robin Williams said, you often forget what someone said to you, but you'll never forget the way they made you feel. And so I think that helping people to know their loved, helping people to know that they're cared about, because people, they belong, believe and then behave. Yeah. And I think we're trying to often reverse that in the life of people. Right. Trying to get people to believe before they feel like they're loved. Yeah. And so I don't think it was John Maxwell who coined the phrase, people don't care what you think till they know that you care. Yeah. So those things are all important. I don't think any of us, you know, play them out perfectly.
Speaker 3
When you
Speaker 2
say that that's part of what being a nobleman is, is that there really is no, no nobility unless you have the opportunity one to do wrong. Yeah. But also to choose something right, right? I look at Jesus and I go like, man, he was doing such noble things because he was able to be with a tax collector and be with the prostitute and not make them feel shame, but bring a message in a way where they felt loved and cared for despite their differences. Yeah.
Speaker 1
And maybe even convicted because conviction, you know, I mean, true conviction says you're way too awesome to be accurately. Yeah. So, you know, he sees Zacchaeus who's been cheating people for years. And, you know, and he says, Hey, I'd like to have dinner at your house and Zacchaeus climbs out of the tree and immediately like, I'll give up to half of my, of my wealth. And if I've cheated anyone, I'll Jesus just need to say things to him, except for like to have dinner at your house, you know, and I think that conviction, I do think that conviction is a gift from God to to all of us and including the people that we are in relationship with. And I think that people often feel convicted over our lives. Yeah. Like they get around us and they're living a godless life. And when we get in their space, what we don't want them to do is feel condemned. Common nation says you're, you know, you did wrong because you are wrong. And conviction says you're better than that. Yeah. And so, you know, I think that I think that we should live in a way that helps people, you know, find their way. I was thinking about the woman caught in adultery, which everybody repeats that story over and over. And no one very solved it as does anyone finish that story. You know, when Jesus said, you know, you know, let the, let he, that sin cast for stone. And then, you know, everyone leaves, then he says to no one condemn you, condemn you. She said, No, Lord. He said, neither do I condemn you. Go your way and don't ever sin again. And he doesn't call don't ever sin again condemning her. Yeah. So, you know, it's like sometimes we, you know, we build a relationship with somebody where we do get to speak. Like we earn the right to, we have the value in their life and we earn and favor and we have the right to speak into their life. It's part of leadership. Like when I think about
Speaker 2
Maxwell's talks about the different levels of leadership, of course, the first one would be positional, right? Like people follow me because I'm paying their paycheck. I'm their boss. But then that next level is promotional, right? Like you follow me not because I'm your boss, but because I add value to your life. You see me as a person of value. You believe that I care for you. You want my input in your life. I remember when I was firefighting was with guys who were non-Christians. And my goal was to get into that permission place in their life where they wanted me to speak into their life, knowing that I had a different set of value system because they felt valued for regardless of our differences. So I feel like that's a, it's like a leadership principle of like, no, don't, like nobility, trustworthiness, faith gives you access and even makes you credible to speak into people's lives who are living a different way because you have a solution and an answer that they desperately need. If you give it to, if you compose yourself in a way that feels loving and caring, and I think too, like it says that, that kindness leads us to repentance, right? And I think when you start to fold in the kingdom message, it's like, man, it's kindness, it's love. It's a standard with kindness. It's a standard with love. It's a standard with, you know, that's full of compassion and vision. You're way too good to be acting like this. And that's God's model for us. So there's
Speaker 1
the young African American man that I play basketball with. He's about six foot nine or 10, maybe, yeah, to nine or 10. And he's, you know, I don't know if he's a brand new Christian, but he's like two or three years old in the Lord and he is, he's on fire. That's awesome. He's on fire, right? But he's being raised by these guys who are anti like their, well, they're, they're definitely anti-bethal guys and horrible people. Yeah. Okay. There. And it's all about, uh, Bethel's out trying to get your money. So, you know, so he's like, can I ask you some questions? So the last three times I've met the gym, he's like, can I ask you some questions? And, you know, it's like, and the Bible says, you know, you could tell someone's, you know, prepped him for the conversation, you know. And, you know, Jesus wasn't rich and, you know, the, and, you know, today he told me about the lust of the eyes, the lust of flesh and both sides of pride of life is not from the father. And he's going on like that. And, and you know, he asked me like three weeks ago, can we have conversations? Yeah. So, you know, today he comes up and I had already, you know, been thinking through, okay, we're in another conversation. And today he came up and he started this conversation. I said, Hey, bro, here's, here's still, I'm eager to have any conversation you want to have about the Bible. I wrote a book on wealth. So I know a little bit about the subject. But it doesn't feel like you're asking questions. It feels like you have accusations. And I don't know why you have accusations against me. Like, I have no idea what I did to make you not trust me. And I told him a little about our history, you know, like 20 years and we were real 17 years people live with us. You know, I just went on kind of like, this is our first of all, this is our journey of, you know, being poor. This is our journey of generosity. And, you know, this is, this is how I got wealthy. Like, I mean, wealthy, ripping people off. Yeah. I wrote 15 books. We give away half of our income, half of our profit. And we, you know, I just went, I'm like, so when you're talking to me, like, I did something wrong and I'm having to defend myself. If you want me to defend the scriptures around, you know, poverty, riches and wealth, I'm glad to have a dialogue with you. But what I'm not, what I'm not, what I'm not going to do is defend my nobility to you. Because I didn't do anything to deserve that. Yeah. And he's like, oh man, I need to repent for that. You know, that's Congress. I mean, he's just a really sweet young man. Super sweet. And I told man, I love your passion. And, you know, I just, I don't know what I did to offend you. Yeah. And so I feel like I'm fighting a ghost. Yeah. So I told him a little my story and he was like, oh, yeah, that's so good. Yeah, I didn't hear that before. My God, you never asked. Yeah. So, you know, I do feel like part of part of, you know, I think we have to, like, I don't, I don't know. Like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be a passive man who just rolls over whenever somebody says something I don't like. And it's like, oh, we're all good, right? But I also don't, I also don't want to be a dog matting religious bigot that, you know, has an accusation against people because they live differently. Yeah. And, and I want to truly love people. And I, and I, Elon Musk said something this week. I know I know Elon Musk's not a believer. So, and I understand his moral life is not the kind of life I would want to live. But he made a statement that is it was, it was crude the way he put it. But he's talking about that. I think it was like on, you know, on Twitter on X, whatever he calls it now. So, you know, Disney and some advertisers have gone off his pop up. Yeah. Office platform because of the stances he's taken. And, you know, the person who's interviewing says, well, you've lost millions of dollars because people, you know, a boycott, he's, and he said, well, F them. He said, I am not, I am, will not be manipulated by money. Mm hmm. I will not be manipulated by money. And I'm like, okay, doesn't know the Lord. Doesn't have the values I have. But he's like, I am not for sale. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, I find it. Here's a man doesn't know the Lord. But he, and he's the, he's on and off the wealthiest man in the world. And he's like, but money is, you're not gonna, like, I don't, you're not gonna, like, I love the fact this man got wealthy, but he's, he's not like. He doesn't care if he loses his wealth. Yeah. And I'm like, well, what happens when a, when, you know, when you, when you lose your fear of dying and you can't be bought, you become an unstoppable man. Or
Speaker 2
you're really
Speaker 4
depressed. Yeah. You can't ruin my point, but exactly. Or you're really
Speaker 1
depressed. I'm like,
Speaker 4
I got that a long time ago. I'm not afraid of that. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. There's another side of that for sure. It's awesome. Dad, great. That's great. Listen, that was just the first question. Yeah. We're gonna be here all week, man. I got a list of them. Sorry. No,
Speaker 2
I'm kidding.

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