Jason Hickel returns to PTO for the second part of a two part interview on his book, Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World. We talked about the concept of 'green growth', and why the notion of decoupling growth from intensive resource use is ultimately unconvincing. We also chatted about the Green New Deal and whether it is compatible with the politics of degrowth. And finally we talked about Jason's argument that a green energy and resource transition, if undertaken with no challenge to the growth imperative of capitalism, could pave the way for radically increased exploitation of workers.