How does the Transition Away from Fossil Fuels roadmap relate to the real economy?

It’s the middle of week two at COP30, and the negotiations are entering their crunch phase. A draft cover text has finally landed, ministers are on the ground, and the presidency is pushing hard to close before Lula heads to the G20 in Johannesburg.

Paul Dickinson and Fiona McRaith look at the issues still holding up progress - from finance and adaptation to trade, the global stocktake, and the long-running debate over fossil fuel language. Plus, Germany’s former climate envoy Jennifer Morgan joins the show with a clear-eyed read of where things stand, what’s moving, what isn’t, and how the presidency is trying to break the deadlock. 

But beyond the blue zone drama, real shifts are already reshaping the global transition. And nowhere is this more obvious (and more significant) than in the world’s two most populous countries:

On China, Professor Wang Yi , senior adviser to the Chinese government on climate change, outlines how rising energy demand is increasingly being met by renewables and new energy sources, why emissions may already have plateaued, and how the world’s largest solar exporter thinks about “steering” the clean economy without dramatic rhetoric.

And on India, Dr Arunabha Ghosh describes a “pentathlon” transition, sets out India’s avoided coal build-out, and explains why diversified supply chains will determine whether global deployment accelerates or stalls.

Whatever happens in Belém this week, the direction of travel from China, India and other rising economies will be impossible to ignore. But can the text on the page match the momentum gathering pace in the real world?

Learn more:

🔍 Read the COP30 Draft Cover Text

📖 Learn more about India's Local Grids to Global Power report, announced by Dr Arunabha Ghosh

🌍 Check out the official COP30 website for background and announcements

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Lead Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Planning Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Edited by: Miles Martignoni

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford

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