Hackers have long been portrayed as the bad guys, but Biella uncovers how the ethical Grey and White Hat hackers created the modern security industry, despite the risk to their careers, and fierce opposition from major tech and software companies who wanted to keep any vulnerabilities in their products hidden from the public eye. She talks with Chris Wysopal, member the high-profile hacker think tank the L0pht, about the struggle for security, and how that fight may have inadvertently damaged a key part of hacker culture in the long term.