Today we are joined by Beirut-based journalist Kim Ghattas, author of the bestselling book Black Wave: Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Forty-Year Rivalry that Unraveled Culture, Religion, and Collective Memory in the Middle East. She is also a contributing editor at the Financial Times.

We’re speaking to Kim about the unprecedented, overt attacks exchanged this month between Israel and Iran — most recently an Israeli strike on Friday near the Iranian city of Isfahan. 

Where is this dangerous tit-for-tat headed next, and what’s at stake? What do Iran and Israel’s leaders actually want here? And what does it mean for the wider region?

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