Award-winning author Peter Sims shares some heartening research on how people like Steve Jobs, Chris Rock and Frank Gehry use small experiments to lay the groundwork for big creative successes. It’s an encouraging episode for all the creative types out there thinking they have to have it all figured it out from the get-go. Also, Scott and Peter banter across a wide spectrum of topics including improving education, the empathy deficit in America, deliberate practice and the importance of marching to the beat of your own drummer.

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