Howard McMillan's Pragmatism

I buy that they're psychologically damaged. I buy that that plays out in the style of governance. But when it comes to somebody like Howard McMillan, for me, a really key part of the story is the strength of working class institutions such as the trade union movement. So going back to this idea of enough rats can take down a giant. You're in this period of working class self-organization with political interests having real force and a genuine fear of revolution, socialism. It's a bit more nuanced, but it might be that he had a pragmatism and he had a realities about him.