In November 1989, 30 years ago this month, the collapse of the Berlin Wall ushered in a new era of democracy in Eastern Europe. But today, with populist strongmen like Orban in Hungary and Kaczyński in Poland on the rise, the future of democracy in the region looks uncertain. In this episode we were joined by Ivan Krastev, the Bulgarian political scientist and co-author of The Light That Failed and Oxford University's Timothy Garton Ash, who wrote The Magic Lantern, a book about the 1989 revolutions in Eastern Europe which came out thirty years ago this year. The conversation was moderated by Brian Klaas, the political scientist, Washington Post columnist and author of The Despot's Apprentice. 

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