Most agencies never crack eight figures. Mark Orttung helped one grow to $130M—by breaking every "safe" rule.

In this episode, we dive into what agency owners at the $1–5M mark can actually do to punch past the common growth ceilings.

The most important shift?

He stopped selling to job titles—and started selling to buyers with something to prove.

⏱ Timestamps

00:00 – Intro: Why agencies need a rethink

00:36 – Mark’s background: Accenture, startups, bill.com, Nexient

02:23 – Studying AI in the 90s: symbolic vs neural nets

04:30 – Stepping into Nexient at $39M—and losing $5M first

06:59 – Early differentiation struggles and customer perception

08:29 – Building product-style squads inside a services business

10:38 – The big leap: shifting from selling people to selling outcomes

11:08 – Simplifying the pitch: “life’s too short for crappy software”

13:12 – Saying no to revenue: the scary path to focus

14:14 – Selling without data: enterprise outbound as testing lab

16:26 – Creating their own conference as a positioning feedback loop

19:34 – Cross-industry client base: healthcare to gas utilities to tech

20:25 – Specializing by service vs vertical in today’s world

24:52 – Growth “walls”: from founder-led to decentralized structure

29:21 – Change agents: how to spot internal buyers who take risks

32:40 – The next wall at 150M and why he chose to exit

36:56 – Getting ghosted on a term sheet, then driving a bidding war

40:17 – The Project Works origin story: from spreadsheet to SaaS

42:28 – Why every services firm needs better resourcing visibility

47:29 – What’s next: proposal automation, AI, and growth tooling

48:49 – Where to find Mark and Project Works

Key Points

Why scaling past the eight figures in a services firm requires breaking the founder bottleneck
Why “life’s too short for crappy software” became a high-converting mission
The opportunity of building or early adopters—not the mainstream
How to identify and win over internal change agents in large enterprises
How Project Works helps agencies resource smarter and prevent margin leaks
Using conferences as real-time feedback loops for positioning
Why now is the time to apply AI to services growth ops—especially proposals

Links & Resources:

🎙 More episodes of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast: salesschema.com/podcast

Intro

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