"I used to say, wouldn't it be great if I could work like a normal person and do 40 hours a week? And the realization comes that you do have 40 hours, it's just not in the same week."

Passive income—it's the dream, right? Earning money while you sleep, basking in the golden glow of financial freedom. Sadly, it's not quite that simple. 

Award-winning author and digital marketing expert Kate Toon, author of  'Six Figures in School Hours' and 'Six Figures While You Sleep', has achieved that dream and now shows others how to do it for themselves, but she doesn’t sugarcoat it: there's no such thing as truly passive income. Every income stream, no matter how automated it appears, demands upfront effort and ongoing maintenance. And just as with business books, marketing is just as vital as creating the product itself - maybe even more so. 

In this energising and practical conversation we discuss the taxonomy of automated income, the way we value time over money, the need to play the long game, the centrality of community and the importance of rationing dopamine.