And our thieves. And I think the whole,

whatever, again, regardless of the truth, I'm not getting into this. We're not talking about it. But if you're raised, you know, and you know, we see all the pictures and we've been seeing them, the movies of the little children in camps in their summer camps, you know, to help, you know, to fight the murderous Jew, then it's not a surprise that that society could produce that absolute evil. But then I said to her, but if we do the same, we could end up in the same place. I said, even though you feel, I don't care, if you allow yourselves and others to say, kill them all, I said, where do you think you're going to become? Who do you think you're going to become? And right now, this is week two. And I think in week two, we have to shift to another mode also. I think what we allowed ourselves to feel in week one, I think has to stop you. You can't allow yourself, absolutely, to say, to vocalize, to feel, kill them all. And then wonder who are we going to become? This radical evil is not a surprise. It's produced. It's produced by an educational system. It's produced by a vocabulary. If you demonize the other at the end of the day, we choose in Israeli. We're not human beings. And then you could do what you want to do with us. I still believe like you that Hamas, I don't know if it's possible, and I'm not as confident that it's possible. But I know that I have a moral right that Hamas should cease to exist as a military and political force, that my life is in unacceptable danger with this community working day in and day out to mass weapons and strategies of destruction to kill and murder every one of us. I'm not denying that. But we have to start talking much more seriously and thinking about policies, about our moral red lines, the fact that we told civilians to move south is positive. It's a positive thing. But I don't think that's enough. Where does it meet you, Yossi?

It's interesting because according to international law, we're not obligated, for example, to knock on the roof. And the idea is planning to invade a building. That isn't a requirement of international law. And the whole question of proportionality is very complicated. Proportionality in relation to what? In relation to two things, one is the threat that you're under, and two is your military goal. In terms of the threat we're under, I think we all feel we are face to face with a genocidal threat. And it's not only the threat that we've already experienced. If we don't succeed in restoring our deterrence, that is an existential threat in the Middle East for Israel. So the balance of proportionality is already beginning to look a little bit different this time. The second is in terms of the military goals. If the goal is to disarm Hamas, and that I think is the only way to fulfill the first goal of re-establishing our deterrence, then that means that, for example, the knock on the roof is something that we need to reconsider, and we are reconsidering it. Another example, Daniel, something that I've really been struggling with. What happens if we get information that there's a Hamas leader? We know the location, but he's with his family. There've been many examples in the past where we did not carry out the targeted assassination because of proximity of family. And there were other examples where we did. And what that really means is that each instance needs to be weighed, and I hope we'll continue to weigh rather than change the policy in a blanket way so that wherever we locate a Hamas leader, regardless of what is euphemistically called collateral damage, we strike. So what I'm trying to say is I'm struggling, Daniel. I'm struggling between the need for us to play by different rules this time, on the one hand, and on the other hand, to still maintain red lines. So you know, if when I ask myself, what is your bottom line red line, it's Dresden. No Dresden. No indiscriminate bombing to get at military targets. I don't believe that we're allowed to do that even now. But between Dresden and restraint, there's a wide spectrum.

See for you, and I appreciate this, you're talking policy. For me, I'm first at a personal level, and I think the policy will follow from the personal level, from the personal moral struggle, and from the struggle that you yourself just mentioned. I don't have a policy articulation yet. I'm working on what I'm thinking about it. On a policy level, I know that a just war is not deemed unjust if the enemy is in the midst of a civilian population. I know that the impossible reality of Gaza is that Gazans are the human shields of Hamas. And that when you started by saying, you can't give them what was the word you used, amnesty, or used another word. Immunity. Immunity. You can't, I accept that. That I accept, I accept on a conceptual, philosophical moral level. But I think we Israelis, we have to start talking about our moral red lines. We can't allow ourselves another week in which whatever happens to them they deserve. There is a difference between civilians and combatants. And I don't want a Jewish people to grow up or to continue to grow up in which guys and lives just aren't on our radar screen. I know we have to fight this war. I know we have to win this war. But we also have to win it in a way that we remain who we are because otherwise what type of victory is this? And that's always been the dilemma of Gaza. That's what makes Gaza so different. We're not meeting people in the battlefield. The ability for precision attacks like we have in Judea and Samaria doesn't exist. That's the nature of this hell. A hell that Hamas produced. And in many ways we allowed because we didn't, the consequences were too difficult. After this week there is no restraint because of consequences. We see that the consequences of not doing it is worse. But we need to start talking. We need to start talking publicly. I don't want us to congratulate ourselves. I don't want us to compare ourselves to other countries. They don't, it just doesn't matter to me. We have to fight this and we have to win. But we have to start a serious conversation in our own inner souls. And one which says yes, all human beings are creating the image of God. What do I have to do? I let you go south. What else do I have to do? Do I have to start feeding? Do I have to start giving electricity? Do I have to create refugee camps in Israel? I don't get, what is it that I have to do? Because I have to win this war against Hamas. But I have to do so with a constant serious conversation about our moral redlines. Last thoughts, Yossi.

I'm approaching this emotionally with two commitments. The first is to try to create space in myself for anguish. Not only about our fate, but the fate of innocence in Gaza. And not to allow that anguish to interfere with my determination

to destroy Hamas. Yossi, Yossi, we need, on this you should know there's such a broad consensus here. There's no left and there's no right. So let's, we want to win. But we really need to think about how we do so. We need to have that conversation. That conversation is not an anti-Israeli conversation. That's a conversation that's essential for us. Where are these moral redlines? This is for heaven's sake Israel out war. Daintai.