The triage call and NBAT framework

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Have you ever felt like enterprise clients were running your agency instead of the other way around? Buried in endless proposals no one reads, forced into rushed timelines, or watching your margins shrink every time a project drags out? Today's featured guest opens up about how he broke out of that exhausting cycle. Instead of over-delivering just to keep big clients happy, and seeing little return, he made the bold decision to focus on smaller, more committed clients who were ultimately more profitable and easier to build long-term relationships with.

He'll share what he learned about sustainable growth, including why productizing your services sounds great in theory but can actually become counterproductive when it only happens externally. He'll also explain the sales shift that changed everything: offering a low-risk, "foot-in-the-door" engagement that qualifies prospects, builds trust, and creates a smooth path into deeper service offerings.

Charlie Clark is the founder of Minty Digital, a boutique SEO agency focused on travel and lifestyle brands that originally launched in Barcelona and now operates from London. In this conversation, he'll break down the mindset, systems, and strategy needed to stop chasing validation from big brands and instead build a business where profitability, alignment, and respect come first.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why mid-market clients deliver higher profits than enterprise.

• How internal productization increases efficiency by 3X.

• How clear pricing transforms the sales cycle.

• How AI forced a new level of adaptability in SEO agencies.

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From Struggling Freelancer to Sustainable Agency Growth

After a short stint in an agency at age 22, Charlie tried to go solo before realizing he didn't yet know how to grow a business. He assumed he could do it on his own and quickly learned he wasn't ready yet. Instead of quitting, he got a job as a Digital Marketing Manager, where he could make mistakes, learn operations, and understand what actually works inside a business.

Moving to Barcelona created the perfect environment for momentum. His one-month stay turned into ten years after he landed several clients within weeks. His first retainer was €500 a month, which he laughs about now, but he admits it took years before he learned how to price correctly and move away from low-margin retainers.

Those early years were full of trial and error, but the big breakthrough was realizing that charging more wasn't always the key to profit. Charging smarter was.

Real Profit Lives in the Middle, Not the Top

One of the strongest lessons Charlie learned was that bigger retainers did not equal bigger profit. Working with enterprise clients, he saw they could easily squeeze margins, the team would end up over-delivering, and on top of it all, payment terms were a nightmare. After years, he realized these clients often cost the agency money when the team over-delivered just to keep them happy.

By contrast, the clients who had been with him since the early days, the ones paying between three and six thousand per month, were the most profitable and the most loyal. They bought the same deliverables. They stayed for years. And they matched the agency's internal processes beautifully.

Once he realized this, he moved to intentionally pursuing that sweet spot. Not the five figure monthly retainers or the cut rate ones. The predictable, operationally aligned middle where the team can deliver consistently and profitably. For Charlie, this changed everything from sales cycle speed to team alignment to lifetime value.

Internal Productization: The System that 3X Efficiency

Many agencies think productization means selling rigid packages that make you look less strategic. Charlie took the opposite approach. Internally, his team adopted highly productized systems, templates, and SOPs. They knew exactly what to do for a three thousand dollar client versus a six thousand dollar one, and how much effort each one required.

Externally, the offer still looked consultative and customized. Clients saw a broad range of what could be included, but the delivery stayed tight behind the scenes. This improved profitability, gave the team clarity, and dramatically sped up onboarding.

The biggest win? It eliminated the "start from scratch every time" problem that slows agencies down and kills margins.

How Clear Pricing Transforms the Sales Cycle

Before productization, Charlie would spend hours on proposals that often got ghosted. Once he added transparent pricing, clear expectations, and prequalification to the website, the right clients were self-selecting before the call even happened. By the time he spoke with them, they understood the price and the structure. Now he closes clients on the call or even through a single WhatsApp message.

This is the power of clarity. It shortens cycles, reduces friction, and saves enormous amounts of time for a lean team.

However, transparent pricing attracts budget mismatches, so Jason recommends removing pricing from agency's websites and switching to triage calls and the Foot-In-The-Door model. At the end of the day, there are a thousand ways to create a better sales process. What matters is that it filters, qualifies, and positions you as the advisor.

Why a Paid Discovery Offer Builds Trust and Prevents Ghosting

Both Charlie and Jason agree that a small, paid upfront engagement solves the biggest challenge in agency sales. Trust.

SEO agencies in particular fight an uphill battle here. The barrier to entry is low. There are thousands of one-person shops. Many prospects have been burned before. A small paid engagement builds confidence, shows value quickly, and prevents ghosting.

The Foot-in-the-Door offer should be simple, done live with the client, and designed to build the relationship. Not overloaded with deliverables that overwhelm the client and make them feel uneducated. When done right, it leads naturally into a larger project and then a retainer.

Charlie's Kickstart product functions the same way. For eight hundred dollars, clients get quick wins and clarity. It works because it gives prospects a safe way to test the relationship and because it positions the agency as a trusted advisor instead of a vendor chasing a proposal.

How AI Forced a New Level of Adaptability in SEO Agencies

Charlie admitted that two years ago he felt bored with SEO. Then AI exploded. Search interfaces changed. Clicks shifted. And suddenly the industry was moving faster than ever. For many agencies, this uncertainty created fear. For Charlie, it sparked energy. He leaned back in, started speaking at events, ran experiments on AI search, and brought a fresh curiosity back to himself and his team.

He described the past year as a sink-or-swim moment for agencies. The ones who coasted struggled. The ones who adapted thrived. Lean teams with solid systems could move faster and deliver more value. In his words, being nimble is now a competitive advantage.

Figuring out AI reignited his passion in the business but it was far too much to tackle alone. This is why agency owners should have a community to lean on to try to figure out changes in the industry. Your network will determine your speed of growth. Agency owners who surround themselves with peers sharing what works and what fails will survive the next wave of industry change. The ones who go alone will struggle.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

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