This conversation with Dave Snowden (LI) and founder of the Cynefin Co came on the podcast and we spoke of complexity. Discerning it from systems thinking, why he's been so critical of the inner development goals, getting the critique on experts right. We spoke of change, direction, working with the substrate. Why workshops are suboptimal or even damaging, why practice is what makes perfect. We spoke about waymaking, micro-empathic moments. We spoke of agency, affordance and assemblage, patterns over precision and much much more. This conversation is an excellent primer for those curious about complexity as well as those that consider themselves well versed. We speak of the fundamentals and the essentials in very practical ways. Enjoy!