How did we get to the point where this seemed normal? Which that's a real question, because i actually do not know. Y, i think some of it is a distinctly american problem. And it's not to say that churches in other parts of the world don't have their local celebrities, but there is something about an american fixation on numerical growth, on corporations, and like growing corporations, and effusion of business and religion that with with the carismatic ceo at the helm, kind of drawing attention and excitement to the growth. I think, o the mega church movement exists because not depict on baby boomers, but it was the baby boomers fault. Am, baby boomers were so tired of, like, rote i was stuffy, boring church. And, you know, to their credit, actually wanted people to start coming to church again, who were disfranchised, and looked at what was working in the worlds of business and decided, we can learn from that world. And mega churches have been a very durable and some would say, successful model of church growth in america. I mean, certainly the most successful by numerical growth of the last 25 years. And yet, i think now, or maybe at least in the last i mean, there there has always been a kind of countercultural dimension within american evangelicalism asking these bigger philos pal questions about how we're doing ministry. And maybe thereis a problem in borrowing too much from the world of business when we're trying to preach the gospel of jesus. Am, but you think now we're kind of dealing with, we're grappling with the fact that how you do things is as important as what you're doing, and that celebrity is not just a neutral tool that can kind of be used to fuel this numerical growth, but it actually has deeply shaped our conceptions of what we look for in leaders. Am, you know, it is crucial too, the kind of para church religious am, like the worlds of publishing and conferences. But also, how is it shaping our understanding of discipleship and what it means to live a impactful tis not a word that i like. Ah, i'm glad i said that, cause i've heard a lot more lately, and i'm like cringe every time i hear it. But i know what you mean. Isa, meaningful, a fruitful, but thee those metaphors are so much better. I something can be fruitful and very unflashy and grow very slowly. You know, to look at agricule, agricultural metaphor. And am i just wonder if two were in a time when christians have wondered if we just kind of have to play by worldly rules in order to foot in the door. Like, maybe it's ok our pastor is kind of a celebrity figure who takes photos of himself with justin beeber, because it's showing his followers that christians can be cool, and it's giving us a level of ncultural credibility. And maybe that's what we need.