America's Founding Was Anti‑Catholic

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the historical and cultural dynamics between Catholics and Jews, using Nick Fuentes’ controversial statements as a springboard for discussion. They explore the roots of anti-Catholic sentiment in America, the differences between Catholicism and other Christian denominations, and the evolving role of both groups in U.S. society and politics.

The conversation covers:

* The founding of America as an anti-church nation and the implications for Catholics and Jews

* Nick Fuentes’ critiques of Israel and the Vatican, and how these perspectives fit into broader geopolitical realities

* The influence of both Catholics and Jews in American culture, from Hollywood to political power structures

* The Vatican’s historical and current stances on issues like immigration, capitalism, and alliances with other faiths

* The importance of pluralism, pragmatic alliances, and understanding the real differences between religious and cultural groups

Whether you’re interested in history, religion, politics, or just want a nuanced take on a hot-button topic, this episode offers thoughtful analysis, historical context, and a bit of humor along the way.

If you enjoy the discussion, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments!

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are continuing from an episode that went very long, that was on Nick Fuentes. And as Nick Fuentes says, you’ve gotta pick a side. Is it the Catholics or is it the Jews? And in this episode we’re gonna go over his accusations about Israel and the Jews, which that he made in the Tuck of Carlson interview, which are.

Mostly accurate. But they leave out the context, which is, but then if I am making a decision between the Vatican and those loyal to the Vatican and the Jews, and those loyal to Israel which is a more antagonistic partner to the United States which has stabbed us in the back more frequently and more, well stabbed us in the face more directly when you’re talking about the Vatican.

Mm-hmm. And, and which is a more useful long-term partner in terms of the future of human civilization when we look at existing trends. Okay. And I, and I’m, and again, I’m saying all this, it’s like Nick’s broadly right [00:01:00] around most of the criticisms he has around Israel. And the biggest criticism he has, which is the one that I agree most fervently with him on, is if you.

And if you watch our video before this on Nick that I strongly suggest, I think it’s a great video of you are not familiar with American history and how anti-Catholic America’s founding was. It was essentially founded to be an anti-church country. An anti no. Malcolm

Simone Collins: blew my mind on this one because you’d think that we were taught that enough school.

No,

Malcolm Collins: no. It’s why it’s so ridiculous when he is like, America’s a Christian nation. And I’m like,

Simone Collins: you mean America’s a Catholic nation?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, he said America is a Christian nation, not a Judeo-Christian nation. And I’m like, America is an anti-Catholic, anti Anglican nation. Not just a, not a normal, it’s a Christian nation founded in opposition to high church Christianity.

Mm. And very explicitly and very loudly with lots of receipts with even a cardinal saying this you know, this is not like me [00:02:00] or a conspiracy this is mainstream. If, if you’re familiar with it’s well

Simone Collins: attested and Malcolm has the receipts go to that episode. It’s very interesting.

Malcolm Collins: So the, the, the reason why that episode was important for framing for this episode is I think some people when they try to do the sleigh of hand is it’s, Catholics are just another form of Christian and it’s like.

That has never been true in American history. That’s not true in terms of the value sets of different Christian traditions as we’ve talked about. If you, if you look at even their metrics for truth, right? They are very different. And that difference has become important again very recently. Where if you look historically, what was the reformation about?

It was a conflict between two groups. One said that true should be determined by people who spent their entire life studying a subject. And then so. Somebody couldn’t just claim to be an expert on the subject certified by a central authority, and then another group of people, which is a perfectly reasonable way of doing things.

Yeah. Group of people came up and said, but that central authority could become corrupt, [00:03:00] so we should have truth determined by the individual. Which is also a perfectly reasonable retort. Right. But this is also the exact same fight we had with COVID. And we saw during this fight, the Catholic majority areas cited with the like, which was the, the inner cities, which is where Catholics mostly settled, cited with the trust of people who spent their entire life studying this subject.

And then the Protestant majority areas settled with the, every decision should be made by the individual, not declared experts because those certifying institutions can become corrupt. And, and what I’m pointing out here is that culturally Catholics are very, very different from other Christian denominations.

And so when people are like, oh, you gotta be worried about the Jews, to me this is a bit like an elf whispering to me. You gotta be worried about those dwarfs, you know, they may be very industrious and good at metal crafting and making jewels, oh my god, are dwarfs the, that very stubborn. They remember things for a long time.

They are very good with [00:04:00] engineering.

Speaker: One wrong put right. But the great book of grudges

remains full.

Malcolm Collins: No, but I’ve, I always sort of study it this way. The dwarves are the Jews and the Catholics are the ELs. Yeah. , And you can ally with both of them at the same time, but you’ve gotta be aware that if one of them then steps out and says, no, I refuse to be allied with you.

If you’re allied with the other faction, you gotta choose which one you’re gonna stay allies with. Yes. And we, we

Simone Collins: need, we need to bring back Lego a lesson Gimley, you know,

Malcolm Collins: we could be friends. Yes. And the reality is, is that Nick Fuentes is a minority Catholic opinion. Most Catholics are okay with saying you can be allied with both the Catholics and the Jews.

And if that’s an option, I wanna be allies with both. Yeah, right. But if somebody comes out and says, you gotta choose one America, I’m gonna argue that you’d have to be pants on head retarded to choose the [00:05:00] Catholics given current demographic economic trends and their stated goals and their historic positions.

So here’s the Nick Fuentes quote.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Israel hosts zero bases sins. Zero troops during war, gives false intelligence, sells our secrets to China, has no oil spies on us and is a diplomatic liability US gives infinite foreign aid and weapons, fights their wars, brides their enemies and , covers their but in the un.

Now if you watch the last episode, you’ll know one thing here is just patently a lie that the US gives Israel infinite money. And I pointed out that actually if you look at Catholic majority countries and you look at the average amount of aid we give to Israel a year those numbers are not that different.

We give about the same amount of yearly aid to Catholic majority countries as we give to Israel on a yearly basis. Then I note that, but it’s actually way less money to Israel because almost all the money we give to Israel, they have to spend in us manufacturing jobs in [00:06:00] arms and munitions. But almost all the money we give to Catholic majority countries stays in those countries.

So, if we’re, if we’re weighing the two, and better yet when he says Israel is just a liability, consider an ally like Israel. Israel gets in a sc skirmish with one of its rivals, right? Like they attack first, it handles the situation. We donate an additional amount to them. For one year, we had one year of high a aid levels to Israel, and then the next year it had gone back to almost normal aid levels.

Simone Collins: But even in that case, the aid came with strings attached, meaning they had to, like strings find money from Americans. All, all the, went back to the United

Malcolm Collins: States. Okay? But the point here being is this is very different than like the Ukraine or like really almost any other country where lied was like no one else just gets it done in the way that Israel has.

But he is right about his other things here was, was we,

Simone Collins: what’s the selling stuff to China?

Malcolm Collins: This is a real thing that happened in the 1970s, which we’ll get to.

Simone Collins: Oh, in the seventies. That’s the seventies, a while ago. It

Malcolm Collins: was a while ago, and Israel was in a very different position then. And that’s really the [00:07:00] caveat that we need to take this with.

Okay. Yeah. When we consider what the Catholic church was doing in the seventies, what was the, do you remember all of those Communists and Socialists, republics you set up that had a goal of destroying America around Latin America? All those revolutions and genocides you ran because peppered farm remembers who might wait.

Catholics were involved with like, oh, the Catholics get a ton of communists and socialist revolutions. We’ll get into it. I have receipts. And good lord, because they were really all about that stuff. I mean, they, they really, they, they were against the communist in Russia because it was an atheist, communist state, and they were against the communist in China.

‘cause it was a aist communist state. But, but they were broadly pro-communist. Really with whiz. A Catholic flavor to it. So they were actually like a core geopolitical enemy of us in terms of like actual wars, historically speaking. Okay, now I note that they were [00:08:00] proxy wars, but they were still wars.

We were fighting proxy wars against the Vatican across Latin America, and we were fighting proxy wars against Russia across like East Asia and stuff like that. So, but we’ve, we’ve conveniently forgotten about this. And Israel, what did they do? They just sold some military tech. Like what? If, if, if somebody needs a forgiven, forget session here.

Mm-hmm. But let’s go to the zero troops during the war. Okay. Fuentes says, Israel never sends troops to fight along the US in its wars. This is true. Put with a very big asterisk. Why do they not send troops to fight alongside us in our wars? Do you know the answer to this, Simone?

Simone Collins: I, I don’t,

Malcolm Collins: because we ask them not to.

Wait.

Simone Collins: What? Okay. Why

Malcolm Collins: is the US asking Israel to not send troops to fight alongside us in our recent wars? Because since Israel became stable, basically, since it [00:09:00] had the capacity to send troops alongside us to fight in our wars. Okay. Almost every one of our wars has been in the Middle East, having Israel send troops to fight alongside us when we are trying to, as one of the US’ biggest diplomatic goals for the past half century, normalize their relations with other Arab countries.

Oh yeah. Could be an absolutely. Idiotic thing. Undo a lot of

Simone Collins: investment. Yes, that is true. Yeah. And that’s for Mossad spying on us. I mean, they spy on everyone. We spy on everyone. Like what? I don’t know if

Malcolm Collins: you think we don’t spy on Mossad, like I’m a little confused by that one, but we’ll get into it.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: that one, that one’s weird, but I mean, why not throw it in? If you’re just trying to put together these arguments, that’s fine, but like also no one cares. I wanna,

Malcolm Collins: everything I wanna steal, man, I wanna take the Maximalist. Israel is bad position in this one. Because it’s, it’s important to, to ask these sorts of questions.

Okay. Like, if you’re asking, if Israel had actively decided to not send troops was in any of our recent conflicts, that would be a definite sign that they are not actually a very [00:10:00] good friend. But, that is, that is not what happened. And you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a shame and I, I don’t even know if like Nick’s aware of this, of why like, it, it may just be that Ben Shapiro was such a dick to him.

As we pointed out, Ben Shapiro has basically created all of the antisemites. Nick is completely justified and becoming an antisemite after what Ben Shapiro put him through Ben Shapiro in the Daily Wire. Mm-hmm. Wire Owens. We don’t know everything, but she might be as well. We’ll wait to see when Brett Cooper starts coming about with antisemitic stuff.

Seriously though, Ben Shapiro seems, Hey Ben Shapiro’s come after us too. He doesn’t like our techno puritan nonsense. He thinks we’re weirdo nerds. He doesn’t, he doesn’t like anyone other than him getting popular in conservative spaces, especially any ideology other than him. But what I’m pointing out here, so first of all, what I wanna point out with all of this stuff is, nick Fuentes didn’t really get enough time to elaborate on any of these points. None of these points were stated so unruly that I think he is attempting to manipulate his audience using information. Mm-hmm. [00:11:00] I genuinely think that that, and this is, this is a big like. When he states this, he is speaking in good faith and I think so.

I think so. That, that it is a conversation we need to be able to have, and this is my biggest problem with Jews, is they will not let us have this conversation. And they, not all of them obviously, but it only takes a minority of people acting bad Allah heroes. Oh, so

Simone Collins: you’re saying like there should be more of a conversation around Zionism that’s like actually functional instead of just like It’s good.

It’s bad. He’s

Malcolm Collins: talked about it. He brought it up.

Simone Collins: I see.

Malcolm Collins: Cancel India show. Okay. You know, and that was really effed up and, and I think honestly Ben Shapiro needs to be pilloried for this. When I heard what Nick went, just went through, I was like, Ben Shapiro. Yeah. That’s unhinged threat to the Jewish people in America right now.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Nick Fuentes is the Wright Kaya right now.

Malcolm Collins: I think that he is completely unhinged what he did. It was completely unjustifiable. Well, and in sure. Basically

Simone Collins: before like I think [00:12:00] even. When Nick Fuentes was either in college or just recently out of college, a very young burgeoning influencer, very small platform relatively for where he is now at the time.

So like not even someone that, that Ben Shapiro should have been aware of. Really? Yeah. Ben Shapiro sort of came at him and tended to

Malcolm Collins: destroy his life.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Over and

Malcolm Collins: over

Simone Collins: and over again. Getting him fired from multiple jobs, he totally unwarranted. So yeah. That, that just for in, in case people are out of those illness.

Well, milk

Malcolm Collins: toes takes often, like, you know, and I think that, that, it. My, my takeaway is I can see I’m not even like anti Nick Fuentes, right? Like, I’m not like cancel Nick Fuentes or anything like that. I’m like, we have disagreements, here’s why. But I am like Ben Shapiro. We need to do something about Ben Shapiro.

And so I’ll be calling Mossad to make sure they take, they, they take care of the situation before he creates any more antisemites. But anyway let’s, let’s keep going here. Let’s, you were wondering about the sale to China, right? So what happened here? Oh, God,

Simone Collins: God, [00:13:00] sorry. Just small aside call, like with Call Mosad, we keep asking our kids who they’re gonna call, and obviously it’s the Ghostbusters, but yesterday in complete earnestness, our, our 6-year-old son, Octavian was like, what is their number?

He was like, really concerned. Ghostbuster, we like didn’t actually have their phone number, like, we need to call Ghostbusters, but.

Malcolm Collins: I can set up a phone service with some vibe coding. That’ll do both. I was like, I’ll do an ai That’ll be the Ghostbusters hotline for the kids, please. Oh my God. Do you want me to just like set that up?

Yeah, I probably get sued. Fans can tell me if they want me to create a AI hotline that pretends to be a Ghostbusters service. Or Mosad and they’re just like, okay, we’ll be able to create that with the R Fab agent Service actually. Yeah. Give them a, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Simone Collins: Carry on. Sorry.

Malcolm Collins: So there are documented instances of Israel doing this.

Mm-hmm. There was often framed more as unauthorized transfers or sales of US delivered military technology than outright, quote unquote, secrets in a spy novel since

Speaker 4: Huh.

Malcolm Collins: Israel has repeated US accusations of passing sensitive American tech to China dating [00:14:00] back decades and causing diplomatic flareups in the 1980s and 1990s.

Oh, so a bit more recently Israel sold China military hardware like missiles, radars, and navigation systems, including tech derived from US programs. And, sorry to make

Simone Collins: you feel old, but the nineties actually was a really long time ago.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. For people who don’t know, it’s 2025 right now. Okay. So, this.

This was 30 something years ago. Different time. Okay. Different time. No, but what I’m saying is it, it the people who were involved in these decisions are not still in power in Israel. Yeah. Yeah. We we’re talking about the last or the generation before. The generation that we’re dealing with today.

Yeah. And the CIA specifically alleges that in 1993 that China had acquired advanced US source tech for jet fighters and air to air military missiles via Israel, where two to 3 billion in deals. This is totally a real thing that Israel actually [00:15:00] did and was a d move. It was an, yeah. Not cool Israel.

What the hell, man? Yeah. Hey. A major 1990 scandal involved Israel selling China blueprint for the US funded lobby fighter jet after canceling the project, which included proprietary American avionics and engine tech. Super, super. Not because we were

Simone Collins: being bros at that time too. You don’t do that to your bros.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. There is one recent instance of this tech transfer, but it’s fairly small. Mm-hmm. In 2013 the US Express Fury after Israel transferred secret missile and electro optics technology to China, violating our agreements on end use restrictions for US aid. Oh. So these were technologies that we funded their development of, but we said, you’re not allowed to transfer them to China.

And they did. You do develop them. Yeah. No, and they did. Which is an absolute D move. And I think, honestly,

Simone Collins: that for me, like on a relational level, I mean, I, I get that there’s still enough aligned [00:16:00] incentives where there’s, there was a reason why we obviously didn’t cut ties with him entirely, but. I if this were like on a, a personal granular level in our real lives and someone burned us like that, no.

Like, absolutely. Our relationship is over. Right? So I could see that being a really experienced issue. No, I can see that.

Malcolm Collins: The problem is, is that if the, if the, if the opposite of the, the counter force, if you’re having to choose between somebody who occasionally screws you over and somebody who states that they hate everything that you are doing and.

Has an ultimate plan for your destruction and subjugation. That’s, that’s the difference between the Vatican and Israel, which we’ll get to because we’re gonna get to the, the, the Vatican stuff in a second. It happens. Okay. Yeah. Well, no, I mean this is, it’s, it’s, it’s a like I will not pretend that Israel and what I actually even like about Nick Fuentes position is the thing that he didn’t mention, which he could have mentioned, which is also a true incident.

But I guess he didn’t mention it because it’s sort of like maybe not as hard as some of the other incidents he [00:17:00] rattled off. Okay. Was the destruction by, of the American warship by Israel during, I forget which conflict that was. But there is some evidence that it may have been deliberate, you know, killing us military personnel.

Deliberate what,

Simone Collins: why? And, and why would they be interested in doing that?

Malcolm Collins: Conspiracy. Why would do that? Conspiracy theorists have a reason. That’s pretty stupid. I think it was an accident. I think I, I, I really can’t like when I look at the reasons, it just doesn’t seem, even if they were going to do it to be mean, like to, to attempt to achieve some end.

It doesn’t seem worth the risk to me. It doesn’t seem worse. The damage bizarre. It, it, it, it seems to me fairly, but most people like Nick, but still believe that they did this attention. He would, I see this is like, you know, they, they, if you’re taking an an anti-Israel perspective, it’s something that you typically get in the bucket of anti-Israel perspectives.

And I like because a rational person like me who looked at it wouldn’t believe it. Nick didn’t throw it out there. I do believe Israel did. Act in a [00:18:00] way that was antagonistic to Americans interests with these tech transfers to China and stuff like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. That is, and I hadn’t known about that before.

I’m glad Nick, but I wa I wanna be

Malcolm Collins: clear, it is not like the two Southern 13 one, if, if your impression is Israel had spies who like stole secret military technology from the United States and then sold it to China, that is not what happened. It is more like the US and in this case it appears for, for usaid was funding the development of specific weapons was in Israel being developed by Israeli companies.

But a condition of that aid was that they not sell this technology to anyone else. And then those companies sold that technology to other people. This is not like. Somebody came into my house and stole my stuff. It’s like I gave somebody some money and said, develop this, but I get exclusive rights to sell it.

Right. Or just, you [00:19:00] know, and then they, they sell it to somebody else as well. My stance

Simone Collins: on that still holds.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s a, it’s a de if someone

Simone Collins: does that, you can’t trust them, you

Malcolm Collins: know, but, well, you can’t trust Israel like this is, they’re a foreign country with, with goals that are antagonistic to America’s goals.

Just as the Vatican has goals that are antagonistic to America’s goals at times. And, and this is what I’m trying to pull out here. Mm-hmm. Israel is not monstrous for acting like a foreign country. Right. Because they are

Simone Collins: a foreign country and they have their own,

Malcolm Collins: they are a foreign country. Right.

The US spies on Israel as well, probably less competently, but the US spies on Israel as well. Right. The US does things that f over Israel as well, not. As severely as Israel has done to us. But we have done things that have ed them over. Now let’s go to the gives false intelligent one here.

So, I’m not gonna go overly deep into things here, but we have the 1956 US crisis. We have the 1975 reassessment crisis. We have the 1981 [00:20:00] AAC sale to Saudi Arabia. We have the 1982 Lebanon War and arms restrictions. We have the 1991 loan guarantees dispute. We have the 2014 halt on hell fire missiles. We have the 2016 UN Security Council resolution 2, 3, 3 4.

This episode’s already long enough, so I’m not gonna go deep into every one of these.

Simone Collins: I need to All right, change your diaper and get the kids, and we can finish this later.

I’m doing Mongolian beef. I’m gonna look up a recipe and prepare it. We’re taking the kids trick or treating night. The one thing with

Malcolm Collins: Mongolian beef is you’re gonna wanna start early in the preparation process of you’re and the kids’ dinner with the marinade.

Simone Collins: Okay, I will take a look at that. And remember,

Malcolm Collins: it uses a lot of chives as well, and we’ll do it with rice.

And I love you to death and you’re a perfect wife. And I hope with this episode fun in, in, in

Simone Collins: fascinating. I had no idea about that history with American Catholicism. So that is

Malcolm Collins: insane. Really changes your perception of Catholicism than Catholics within modern America.

Simone Collins: It does, but I also just feel like we’re, we’re entering a new [00:21:00] era where it isn’t what it used to be.

It’s like, it’s like a new religion that. Is derived from Catholicism, but is no longer Catholicism.

Malcolm Collins: I, I agree with that. I, I agree with that, but I think a lot of the original fears that the founders have of having split alliances in allegiances is still very real.

Simone Collins: Mm. I don’t know. I don’t know.

That’s up for debate. I, I think that the, the new version of Catholicism feels more to me, like early American colonies. Like, Hey, we’re gonna go on our own and build communities and build a city upon a hill. I feel like the city’s won the hill that I’m excited about our Catholic communities in many senses in the United States.

Yeah. So I, I kind of disagree with you, but you’re

Speaker 4: got got around charismatic.

Simone Collins: Got run.

Love

you. Love you. You’re amazing. You’re amazing.

Malcolm Collins: And so the comments on the first Nick went this episode. I, I assume we got some pretty angry ones. ‘cause we do have breakers as fans.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Some of the Catholics were like, well, no, I know for like various reasons. I don’t [00:22:00] know if you saw the unhinged email we got from,

Malcolm Collins: oh, you can cure infertility.

That was the first line. I was just like, you know, you can’t, you, no. There are some forms of infertility you can cure. Yeah. But you can’t cure every form of infertility. Certainly not the type you suffered from Simone.

Simone Collins: No. Yeah. That was

Malcolm Collins: like, like I don’t, I don’t understand where these people come from, right.

Like. I’m like, come on man. Like at least approach us with like intellectual integrity. Don’t just tell me stuff that’s like patently untrue. But no, that’s it. It reminded me of the reporter who came at us and was like races

Speaker 2: have no differences.

Malcolm Collins: Oh no. But there, yeah, there were the other one who was like there’s nowhere in the US where it’s dangerous to be a white person.

And I was just, oh, yeah. It’s like a patently obviously untrue thing. Like why are you coming to us with that? And I assume that a lot of Catholics in the, in the, in the comments are rather like, no, you can be a Catholic and disagree with the Catholic bureaucracy. As a, as a, yeah, that was

Simone Collins: some [00:23:00] comments.

Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But you, that’s literally what Protestantism is. You can, you can believe everything that Catholics believe and you can go to a Catholic church, but if you disagree with the organizational structure, that was the beef that the reformation had was the church. Yeah. I think ironically

Speaker 2: though. Some maybe Catholic commenters didn’t get that.

They’re like, well, yeah, but Protestants also disagree with each other. And we’re like, yeah, that’s kind of the point. Like that’s what they do. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We disagree with each other all the time because we don’t have a central authority telling us what Yes. That,

Speaker 2: that is the whole thing is that there isn’t,

Malcolm Collins: that is the core concern I have with Catholicism is that there is an external body to me, which can define what my faith is.

Yeah. Right. Like that’s my problem with Mormonism as well. And if you, if you deny that, then you are matic you are saying that you would refuse to, even if. It went through, you know, a, a, a council at the Catholic Church or was said Pap bull, [00:24:00] something that disagrees with your personal faith. Then you’re already schematic in your heart, right?

You know, you’re already saying, well, I’ll just flip from the church the moment the church doesn’t agree with my interpretation of Christianity.

Malcolm Collins: Which it’s, it’s,

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s,

Malcolm Collins: it’s,

Malcolm Collins: it’s a weird sort of like limbo schematic take. But I, but I also understand what you’re saying. Like a lot of Catholics in the US are, I think, unaware of like the specific,

Speaker 2: that’s the thing is, is we have a new evolution of Catholicism in the United States, which is almost like a form of Protestantism, if you wanna be super technical about it.

That is very grassroots, that is very independent, that’s very self-determined. And that isn’t necessarily about top-down. No, I

Malcolm Collins: agree really strongly with you. And I think that this form of Catholicism, I like this form of Catholicism, and that is

Speaker 2: probably the form of Catholicism to which Nick Fuentes.

It hears maybe without fully acknowledging it, maybe even to himself. But like I, I do think that’s more what he represents. And people [00:25:00] chiming into the comments also said that they, as followers of Nick Fuentes, who like actually watch his dreams a lot, have not at any point seen him express Catholic integralist views.

So I know you say like AI says back and forward like he is one, but

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I was like, but hey, I did the research. I said I couldn’t find anything where he said it explicitly,

Speaker 2: but there’s also nowhere where he says he’s not that. So that’s the problem, is that like, until we can get him on base camp and talk with him.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But like what his long-term plan for society is. But I think that what he represents and what we’re seeing with a lot of Catholics on our, among our fans or within even the US more broadly, and these are the Catholics who are having a lot of kids and are like actually have a chance of surviving.

Yeah. Is, is there sort of this we disagree with the Vatican. We disagree with essential bureaucracy, but we’re not gonna make a stink about it and we’re just going to create a Catholic identity that is more focused on the aesthetics of Catholicism rather than the, the [00:26:00] technical bureaucracy of Catholicism.

Speaker 2: Well what’s funny too though, and we’ve seen this in comments, is that there are also very papist Catholics. Who very much want to be a part of this top-down Vatican city-based hierarchy, but also don’t acknowledge the current regime, which I think there’s a long historical basis for this, right? Like all the different schisms and different like, oh, well.

Right. And, and usually those led to, to like schisms. Yeah. But what, what I find is interesting is, is at least the, the one, the, the Catholicism that will replace Catholicism, the future of Catholicism is very grassroots. And, and I don’t, I don’t, I wouldn’t say it’s accurate to say they disagree with Vatican City.

I would say that they are indifferent to it. That they use it as a resource when they want it and they don’t, when they don’t. It’s almost like how Americans kind of view the American government. They’re like, no, I, I

Malcolm Collins: completely agree with you. They are indifferent to it. But that it’s, it’s, they’re indifferent to it enough that it doesn’t cause them to like be like, okay, well now I need to think.

Does the word Catholic actually still apply to me? [00:27:00] Because they just don’t care. Like, they’re like, well, no, but

Speaker 2: just think, think about the way that we feel about America. Right? Like, we’re proud to be Americans. We we’re Team America, but we’re not like, you know, we, we don’t, you know, bow down to an American flag every morning.

We’re not like, well, the president said this. I think a true think

Malcolm Collins: argument. This is, no, this is a terrible analogy because as an American, right, like, I am not taking a vow when I claim to be like a nationalist American or something like that, that my theology is defined by what the president says is in specific circumstances.

Oh, okay. The only thing that makes a Protestant, a Protestant and a Catholic, a Catholic is a Catholic. Follow the beliefs of the councils. And they believe in apostolic succession and they believe that when a Pope says things under specific circumstances, those are now the word of God.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s true.

When you pledge allegiance, it’s to the republic. It’s not the president, it’s not any administration, it’s not any single politician. That’s true. But

Malcolm Collins: there’s a new form of Catholic that doesn’t believe that these things are [00:28:00] part of Catholic identity. And it’s more just like the vibe. And this is actually like Nick Fuentes larger thing here, which I find really fascinating is I always point out, you know, he, he’ll go out there and he’ll be like you know, we need to take back America from these foreign minorities.

And as we argued in yesterday’s episode, I’m like, there were like no Catholics that America’s founding, it was founded as an anti-Catholic state.

Speaker 2: Oh. And someone in the comments, even, even chimed in saying that there was this hilarious book he found at one point in the library where a Catholic. Mooned about the, in 1913, this book was published, like was mooning about the idea of maybe someday there will be Catholics in the Senate.

Just like that. Like it could it be possible, right. Like this glass ceiling, but there was so much anti-Catholic Catholicism. Yeah. But the, the, so, so the point I was making here was that Nick Fuentes, he’s like, we need to get rid of this foreign element in the United States that the, the founding fathers didn’t want here, that, et cetera.

Malcolm Collins: And he is part of that minority, like, as I’ve always said, if you’re getting a three course dish in American history, and one course is [00:29:00] anti-black racism and one course is antisemitism, the third course is always anti-Catholic sentiment. Mm. And it almost reminds me like, he’s like, bugs Bunny, and it’s like hunting season and it, he’s like, it’s not Catholic season, it’s.

Jewish season. Oh. And then the other one’s like, no, it’s Catholic season.

Speaker 2: But with,

Malcolm Collins: with

Speaker 2: Daffy Duck. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But the funny thing is, is he’s like, well, we need to get all of these, these Catholics together, all these conservative Catholics together and impose our will on America. Right. Like, make America a country of our colors.

Right. And what’s really wild to me. Is Catholics make up 20% of the US’ population. They are shrinking in terms of birth rate dramatically, quickly. Yeah. They are shrinking Well, but

Speaker 2: the, like mainstream ones, not these like grassroots communities. No, no. They’re

Malcolm Collins: shrinking in terms of deconversions very quickly.

So just so you know, in terms of the numbers here, for every one person who converts to Catholicism, 8.4 adults leave the face. Whoa. For every one person who converts to Protestant to [00:30:00] them, 1.8, leave the face. So. They’re, they, it’s a, it is a face that’s in an incredibly weak position right now basically across all positions in terms of like societal dominance.

And he’s acting like it’s the dominant viewpoint of, of Americans or even of conservatives. And it’s this sort of larp, which he also has was a Vatican where he has this LRP that I think that the Vatican or that the Central Catholic Bureau bureaucracy agrees with his position on things like immigration or things like, you know, they’ve basically written a whole thing, which we’ll get into in this episode where they basically denounce him you know, and specifically Catholic nationalism and, and, and sort of nationalist Catholicism and especially as it’s growing within the us, which, I mean, who else are they talking about?

But what’s, what’s what’s interesting is like Nick Fuentes worldview works. Because he pretends that most Americans are like him, and he pretends that the Vatican agrees with him. And that this makes his world view cohesive. Where if you look at the world as it actually [00:31:00] exists, the conservative party can only win as an alliance of many different groups, one of those groups being Catholic.

But to pretend that these groups aren’t actually different is a Trojan horse in am in American Christianity. Mm-hmm. More broadly, you know? Mm-hmm. Like trying to push Catholicism into the Protestant traditions that America grew is, is I think quite insidious. And I, and I think that a lot of conservative saw that they were just playing nice.

As, as you know, I always do. And I think we need to be honest that these are different religions, right? They actually have I would argue that like theologically, if you look at art. For example, iteration of like techno puritanism, which is like Calvinism mixed with science. It is closer to many forms of Judaism or even some forms of Mormonism than it is the Catholicism.

Mm-hmm. This idea that Protestantism and Catholicism are very close in their beliefs is just not, it, it not anymore. Right. Or at least a lot of Protestant factions. Right? Yeah. And, and but anyway, I’ll get started on the episode here. Let’s [00:32:00] go. So coming back in after we just went over all the text stealing and everything like that, and I was like, that’s terrible that they did that, man.

I wanna go into conspiracies, right? So we talked in the last episode about how castles basically dominate the Supreme Court because an invitation only. Society, which does have closed doors meeting. So a secret society, the Federalist Society basically put Catholics in charge of one third of our government.

Speaker 2: They’re so cool though. Can you even be mad? I can be mad because they pretend that they’re promoting conservative values when they’re really controlled by Catholics and disproportionately promote Catholics. Well, they’re Catholic conservative values. They’re still No, that’s not what they tell their donors.

Malcolm Collins: That’s not what they tell the public. They, they are, it, it is a. A shady thing that’s happening now. I like that they’re on our side. I, I prefer, you know, if there’s conservative Jews who are putting Jews in positions of power and, and promoting a conservative message, I’m like, okay, you’re on our side.

Whatever. Right? Yeah. And there’s conservative Catholics who have gotten together and put Catholics in a [00:33:00] position of power. As long as they aren’t sabotaging us, which they’re not so far, I’m like, okay, that’s great. Right. Speaking of conservative Jews, we watched Ben Shapiro’s basically like fallout from this, where he just goes nuts.

So, but, so, butt hurt about the Tucker Carlson, how Tucker Carlson is ruining America. And shows all these whiny, whiny clips about Nick Fuentes, which is like, look, I caught him. I caught him. I caught him saying thing, A guy who’s screams for multiple hours a day said something offensive once. And if you look at like, the things that he thinks he caught him on, a lot of them is just like.

True stuff that anyone being honest would say. Like the first one he runs is Nick, Nick saying, and I think he, he could have chosen his wording better that some women like to get griped. And what I think he meant to say which we point out in our book on sexuality, homosexuality, and I brought

Speaker 2: up on our podcast multiple times

Malcolm Collins: what

Speaker 2: something we’ve also brought up on our podcast.

Malcolm Collins: There, there, there, there are a, a large percentage like a, a [00:34:00] very meaningful percentage of women who get arousal from imagining scenarios like this. It doesn’t necessarily mean they want it to happen to them, that obviously in a minority of cases that is likely true and, and people will be like, oh, that’s because men scrambled their brain.

I’m like. 50 Shades of Gray did not become a bestseller because women wanted to show off to their husbands. I don’t go to Barnes and Noble and see an entire monster effer aisle. Sorry, not one. I’d say it’s like half of, like the women’s fiction section is about women, effing monsters. Okay. This is not because of men.

You can watch our episode on what we think led to this, but the point being is like. Ben, you can’t do this anymore. You can’t go out there and cherry pick a few things and then show them to your audience and think your audience is gonna be like, oh yeah, you know that, that, that what a, yeah, he said the naughty thing.

Now he’s off the air. He said the naughty thing. And that you think that that’s still okay, means you don’t really have a part in [00:35:00] the modern conservative movement because the modern conservative movement is an anti Pearl clutcher movement. And when you come out there and you’re clutching your pearls like little diva.

Speaker 2: Well, I

Malcolm Collins: think

Speaker 2: the bigger problem is that the conservative movement and, and the new right have really succeeded because they’re big tent. And a big problem that he has is he’s little tent. He, he wants people out of his tent. And Nick Fuentes? Yeah. No, no, no, no. Ben Shapiro. Well, both Ben Shapiro and Nick Fuentes.

Ben. Well, no, Nick, Nick, Nick Fuentes is off the reservation. He’s just doing his own thing. He’s not ending. He’s literally off

Malcolm Collins: the reservation. No, little farm out the

Speaker 2: woods. He’s he is out. No shelter. Just, you know, free balling it. But yeah,

Malcolm Collins: Nick DiPiro actually reminds me of Lemon Grab from Adventure Time.

Just like, no.

Speaker 6: Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

Speaker 2: Well, I don’t know. My, my primary issue with him is that [00:36:00] he, he tries to exclude people, but also from this position of being superior and like morally superior and high and mighty. And I, I’m okay with trash. I love trash talk. I think trash talk is great. I think doing it from a position of moral superiority instead of like, gamesmanship is tedious, but let’s, let’s carry on.

Sorry. No.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s carry on. And when I will say, I, I, I do love it when people say things that are just meant to freak out. People like Ben Shapiro

Speaker 2: Curtis. Yeah. At this point now it’s, yeah. 1, 1, 1 is tempted,

Malcolm Collins: Curtis Jarvin is the king of this. Nick Fuentes is like, I watched the Nick Fuentes offensive clips and frankly.

I found them boring. I, I love Curtis Yas in biodiesel wine. You know that, that we, we, we’ll turn Ben Shapiro and his YPs into biodiesel. You say something like that and then that gets clipped and people will be like, oh, he must mean the Jews. And I’m like, no, I’m talking about the pearl clutches. The pearl clutches.

[00:37:00] We’re done with this. Okay. That’s no longer what we’re doing anymore. Okay? The people who are like, oh, you can’t say this, that hurt my peepees. What are they, you know, feels right. Yes. Nick pun punched him right in the feels. That was inappropriate. But anyway, to continue here. I now wanna talk about conspiracies.

Okay, so let’s talk about the Jews controlling Hollywood, right? ‘cause you’ll be like, well, look, the Jews take power within organizations and then uses organizations to shape society, right? So let’s look at how the Jews do this and contrast this with how the Catholics do it. The lab people don’t know that the Catholics also do this.

Let’s use Hollywood as the example here, because it’s the one that always people always take to okay. So, jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe who faced discrimination and established energy industries gravitated towards the nascent film business in the early 20th century. Many of the Big six studios were founded or co-founded by Jews Warner Bros.

Established by the four Warner Brothers Polish Jewish immigrants Metro Goldwin Meyer in GM was founded by a Belarusian Jew and a Polish [00:38:00] Jew. Paramount Pictures founded by a Hungarian Jew. Universal Pictures founded by a German Jew. Wow, Columbia Pictures. Founded by the son of a Russian German, Russian Jewish immigrant.

And then 20th Century Fox was founded by a Hungarian Jew and a Russian Jew. So the Jews really did, found almost every major studio in the United States except for Disney. And Disney of course, famously did not like the Jews very much. Well, he

Speaker 2: didn’t,

Malcolm Collins: I don’t know. Well, we should do the funny

Family guy: What the hell? What’s happened to us? I don’t know, but suddenly I feel all sweet and warm and fuzzy. It seems we are in a universe where everything is drawn by Disney. Look, there’s our house.

Look how gay we run.

Oh, still and Brian get just in time for pie. This is wonderful, Brian. Oh, let’s live in this [00:39:00] universe. .

Speaker 11: Hello, everybody.

Family guy: Oh yeah. I forgot. This is a Disney universe. Oh, but look how shiny my buttons are Here. Just push the, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. I’ll push the thing.

Malcolm Collins: . Yeah, he was, he was not a fan of the Little Hat people. But I imagine it’s because he was in an industry that was ter completely dominated by Jewish people at the time and even today. And by the way, 2008 poll noted that now only 22% of Americans believe that Jews, quote unquote, run Hollywood.

Whereas this number was 50% in 1964. Oh. But it was actually like functionally true. Most of the people running Hollywood were, jewish. Also you didn’t have a lot of criticism of Jews or the Jewish experience coming out of Hollywood during this period of Jewish dominance. So let’s, let’s look at the facts here.

Jews at least did control Hollywood. If you today have outsized influence in Hollywood, why do [00:40:00] they have the outside influence in Hollywood? It’s because they built it. They built it. They’re the reason why America has all of the soft power we have. So blaming, blaming the Jews for influence in, in Hollywood is like blaming the patriarchy for building the world, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah. It’s like, well, you weren’t doing it. Okay. You’re welcome. What do you want? Yeah. You know, it’s very much like,

Speaker 9: So what I believe you were trying to say is, thank you. Thank you. You’re welcome. What? No, no, no. I, I didn’t, I wasn’t, why would I ever

Malcolm Collins: right? It’s like, yeah, I built it and now I run it, and I discriminate in favor of my own people, as we all should. Sorry, I’m not saying we should discriminate in favor.

I’m saying as we should all be able to, if we have a preference for it. Okay? Mm-hmm. This is what you know, what is that? Kwanza is about, for example, a huge Oh yeah. Supporting black owned businesses. Black owned businesses, right? Yeah. You know, that’s not illegal. Or it might be within some circumstances.

But anyway, so Jews control Hollywood because they [00:41:00] developed one of America’s strongest cultural tools. Has Hollywood been corrupted since its founding? Absolutely. But the corruption of Hollywood has actually correlated with a decrease in Jewish control over Hollywood. It’s not

Speaker 2: Jewish enough,

Malcolm Collins: not an increase in Jewish control over Hollywood.

Hmm. In, in fact I, I’d argue it really just comes downstream of the urban monoculture and parts of Jewish culture being corrupted more quickly. But these parts are dying out anyway ‘cause they don’t have kids. Alright. So Jews control Hollywood, but they also built Hollywood. So we sort of owe them for that.

And they’re disproportionately writers, comedians and stuff like that. I think it was something like 90% of comedians were Jewish in New York in like the 1970s. I can’t remember the exact statistic. Wow. But but we also see this with, well, I’ll get to this in a second. Now, let’s look at Catholics.

Did you know that there was a Catholic institution that basically controlled Hollywood from the 1930s to the 1980s in terms of what they produced? So yes, it had to align with Jewish interests. Does this have to do with

Speaker 2: the, the whole like censorship and [00:42:00] rating system thing? I feel like I’ve listened to podcasts about this.

We did. Did, yeah. The leap

Malcolm Collins: of decencies moral stranglehold.

Speaker 2: That was it. Yeah. In star

Malcolm Collins: contrast, Catholic grouped actively controlled Hollywood’s moral output through organized pressure, ensuring Catholicism was depicted in glowing uncritical terms. The key player was the Catholic Legion of Decency, founded in 1933, renamed the National Catholic Office for motion pictures, or, oh, the

Speaker 2: Legion of Decency sounds so much better.

I know, right? Branding problems. Come on, guys.

Malcolm Collins: 1965, which rated films on a scale from a morally unquestionable to C condemned and condemn mobilized. Well, Catholic terminology is so great. I agree. Condemned and mobilize boycotts via pledges taken by millions of Catholics and churches. So at that’s reasonable.

That’s 1950s working with the motion picture production code Haze Code Enforcers from 1934 to 1968, the Legion [00:43:00] demanded positive portrayals of religion, specifically Catholicism clergy could not be villains. Priest and nuns were in. Invariably his heroic, virtuous and wise, eg. Being Cossie affable Father, m Miley going my way, 1944.

And the Bells of St. Mary in 1945. With Oscars even towing the line films, mocking the church are showing flawed priest risk condemnation leading to edits or bands. For example, the Moon is blue. 1953 was condemned for dam and virgin sparking debates by showing the Allegion Power Studios feared losing Catholic audiences estimated to be 20% of ticket buyers.

And I’ll note here which is really cool. This is why if you watch old movies, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed that there is a trope in an old movie of a priest is given a confession, a Catholic priest, obviously that’s a confession. And the confession contains like the clues to like solving a murder or something like that.

Or a, a guy is going to murder someone. Mm-hmm. And the priest [00:44:00] upholds their vow and doesn’t tell anyone, but instead like goes out and like solves it himself or something. And it’s like this classic thing that you see in a lot of movies from this time period. Because it was like, in no way can a priest be a bad guy during this period, specifically Catholic priest.

From 1950s to 1980s by the mid 1950s challenges mounted eg. Baby doll 1956, which was condemned but released, but the legion persisted, shifting in the 1960s post Vatican II to promote quote unquote good films rather than just condemn it influenced the MPA MPAA rating system introduced in 1968, replacing the code and continued ratings until the 1980s when income merged into CB’s office for film and broadcasting fading it by the 1990s.

Even then, it ensured sycophantic depictions, films like the Nuns Stories 1959, idealized Covenant Life, while Critical Ones eeg, the Cardinal in 1963 still portrayed the church sympathetically to avoid backlash. So this is, this is really important [00:45:00] because what it shows is the ways that, that Catholics control things versus the ways that Jews control things, Jews.

Build things and outcompete other individuals and use that to control organizations with a bit of nepotism on the side. Catholics have the same nepotism, but they do it through blackmailing people who have built things other than themselves. Right. Which is just strictly worse.

Octavian Collins: And it actually, what? I, I tried to go up a little. I when it went down it just like disappeared.

Thank you dad. A lot.

Malcolm Collins: Now, obviously this isn’t true of all Catholics, but we’re talking about the way Catholic organizations when they have exerted influence in the past, contrasting with Jewish organizations when they’ve exerted influence in the past, how they do it, right? Even if you look at today like the big Jewish funding groups that are influencing politics, they do it through putting money into politics, like putting money that they [00:46:00] made and giving that to politicians.

Not well, except in Ben Shapiro’s case as often threatening in blackmailing. Now let’s go to the next claim he gave here. Gives false intelligence. Okay? So, he says that Israel is a, you know, unreliable partner because they gave false intelligence. So the incident in question here. In 2003, the Iraq WMD claim, Israeli intel did warn of an Iraqi W-M-D-E-G curve.

Ball source was handled by Germany, not Israel but Israeli officials did push the threat narrative. US Senate report 2004, found no evidence Israel fabricated intel. So, this incident is just false. It was not pushed by Israel. The WMD stuff did not come from Israel. It came from German intel. And this was investigated.

It’s, it’s, it’s not accurate. Now let’s go to the next one here. I ran nuclear archive. Israel’s massage stole 55,000 pages from Tyran verified by I a. EA as [00:47:00] authentic US used it to to exit G-C-P-O-A. But this was good intel and it was given by Israel. Okay. Well let’s go to the next one. The Syrian reactor strike Israel gave us precise intel on North Korean built reactor.

US confirmed via satellite as accurate again, it was accurate intel. Okay. Real grievance is that Israel has withheld or shaped intel into protected forces, eg not sharing humid on Hezbollah. So it’s really not so much that Israeli ever gave us provably false intelligence. It is that when they had intelligence that if shared with us, would cause us to act in a way that was against Israeli interests.

Mm. They chose not to share it with us.

Speaker 2: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: To which I must ask, do you think that the us Yeah. Like shares intelligence with Israel that would cause them to act in a way that is unaligned with our interests?

Speaker 2: So this is basically, Israel’s not retarded. Con conspiracy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Then he, he goes, [00:48:00] has no oil.

This is one of his claims. Therefore, they have no strategic resources. Here’s the problem. Israel has another strategic resource, which is much more valuable than oil. What is that resource, Simon? I’m gonna see? Do, do you know the, the resource that Israel has that is dramatically more valuable than oil

Speaker 2: ip.

Jews. Jews. It has Jews. I mean, even Palestine has acknowledged that that’s why they, yeah. When they said,

Malcolm Collins: when the Gaza was, so the, the Gaza plan, when they went in and invaded what they were going to do, is they were like, well, we also have to like, enslave the population here because God knows our people can’t make an economy work.

Right. Like, even they were like,

Speaker 2: well, I mean, we, we gotta keep them to make the money. Of course. Keep them. They

Malcolm Collins: didn’t wanna get rid of them, they wanted them to work for them. Right. And, and this is a funny thing, you know, as we pointed out on the, leather Apron club. You know, he did this thing where he goes over like something like 53% of the guests on Joe Rogan are Jewish.

And it’s like, yeah, [00:49:00] because they outcompete other groups within almost every profession. Like thi this is a big thing, right? And it’s not just with nepotism, right? Like, it’s clear that they can come over to our country, lose everything, and then quickly create entire industries, right? It, it reminds me, I, again, I’ve said this before, but I see this is no different than when like BLM people are like, whites are out competing us because they’re cheating.

And it’s like, no, if you see a group out competing you, like, you should be like, have the, have the humility to be like, maybe that group is doing something that I can learn from. Or, or has some utility, right? Like, catholics. On the other hand, even Nick Fuentes is the first to admit that we don’t want any more Catholic immigrants into this country because he’s the one who’s always complaining about the Hispanic immigrants who are predominantly Catholic.

Right? Like, I would not complain a lick. And we got a big shipment of Jewish immigrants into this country. But I can see why some [00:50:00] people have concerns over the large waves of Catholic immigrants because every time this country, as I’ve mentioned in the past, you can watch our episode on why this is the case, has gotten a wave of Catholic immigrants.

It’s come with organized crime whether it’s the Irish mob, Italian Mafia you know, Mexican MS 13, you know, it’s, it’s just hand in hand, right? And we talk about why this, this happens. But it’s not just that they’re also less productive. It’s, it’s, they’re like a, if you look at Catholic majority countries, they are on the whole.

You know, poorer and more corrupt. When you look at areas with concentrations of Jews, they are typically wealthier. Well, isn’t there

Speaker 2: this weird bifurcation of Jews though? Like on, on the one hand you have the super high fertility Jews who don’t really participate in the mainstream economy. And then you have the offshoot low fertility Jews that are kind of self extinguishing, but they keep getting produced like, ‘cause they’re sort of like this.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe I don’t wanna, I

Speaker 2: don’t wanna say waste product, but like, byproduct of, of Harbor [00:51:00] Line Judaism, you

Malcolm Collins: even mind, Jews are basically two ethnic groups. Because you have the, the Ashkenazi and the Sephardic. Sephardic,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Sephardic. And it is the Ashkenazi Jews that outcompete other groups. You can go to our video on Jews is actually smarter.

We argue that they’re not actually smarter. So you can, you can watch our video on that. But I don’t, even if you argue that they’re not actually smarter than other groups, you cannot argue that they’re not outcompeting other groups. Right. It, it’s very much like the Nazis when they kicked out all their Jewish scientists and then they came over here and built an ABO for us.

Right? Like that was, they, they do build actual things of utility when you’re nice to them. There’s the famous letter that I think it was Ottoman King sent to a Spanish king when he was kicking out all the Jews during one of the p Brams. There was basically an medieval high talk, have fun being poor.

But yeah. Okay. Next one here. No, I mean, you’ve got to, even if a, if. A population may turn on you. Right? Like I, again, I’m not saying that Jews are aligned with us in everything, right? [00:52:00] But I’m saying when I see utility in a population and I’m having to choose between one of two groups even Nick Flint doesn’t want more Catholics in this country, right?

Like, unless he can convert them right, then it’s okay. Then it’s okay. Like he recognizes, and I’m like, come on man. Like this is all a larp at this point. Is it not? Like, but I’m gonna continue here. Spies on us. Spies on us. Fuentes says that Israel runs an espionage. An extensive espionage campaign against the United States.

This is true and well documented. Jonathan Pilar, 1985 Naval Analyst gave Israel thousands of classified docs satellite imagery, signe sentence to life. 1985 to 2004, art students spy ring. FBI investigated 140 Israelis posing its art students casing, DEA offices NSA warned of aggressive Israeli espionage.

2019 WhatsApp Hack Israel firm, NSO groups. Pegasus used to spy on US officials slash journalists per citizen lab. GAO report. Israel named top economic espionage threat to [00:53:00] US defense contractors. FBI, counterintel still ranks Israel in the top five for tech theft behind Russia and China.

So I mean, it would make sense that that was, yeah, that that was always allowed. Like that’s the way it works. Yeah. But no, I think there’s just also an extremely strong. Correlation between being, having a high tech industry and engaging in quote unquote tech theft. Mm-hmm. What, what is the difference between TE and with our technology anyway?

Like what other country is going to use it? Yeah, but it’s not just that. Do you think that we don’t spy on Israel? Like I’m just baffled. Yeah. Do you think that we don’t spy on Israel? Do you think that we don’t spy on our other allies like Canada? Like are you what? Obviously we spy on Israel yeah. Yeah. Where there’s a lot of sharing of Intel, but it makes sense, right? Like I, I do not, I do not hold somebody I’m not like, that makes it bad.

And I’d also point out here, do you not think, it just sounds

Speaker 2: like middle school girls, they all spy on each other and they all share everything. Well, not everything [00:54:00] stuff strategically, you don’t think

Malcolm Collins: that the Vatican has, has information. Networks like that also like baffles me. The, the Vatican has political diplomatic interests and uses.

Its, its various organizations to channel information up to the, the upper ranks. Like the Vatican is not Saint l Von Stingen, if you look at their history, which we’re gonna get to, right, like they are an active political player with active political objectives that they are willing to pursue.

Speaker 2: Let’s be fair though, that the Catholics are the only ones with the saints. So.

Malcolm Collins: No, they are, yeah. They, they are the only ones with the saint. So they, they do have actual a power to make their spies saints. Yeah. Which the Jews can’t do.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. No Saints with the Jews.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Diplomatic liability. He says the US gives infinite foreign aid and weapons.

As I pointed out, they don’t the US actually only gives about the amount to Israel every year on average that we give to all the Catholic majority countries that we give a to [00:55:00] combined, except it’s reciprocal in Israel’s case, because they have to spend over 90% of that buying US weapons. And this isn’t true with the Catholic aid.

It just goes to these countries and then nothing happens to it because they never get wealthier. It’s like, can we stop, can we cut off aid to these countries? We’ve been giving it to them for like half a century, much longer than we’ve been giving aid to Israel. And they haven’t been able to get their act together.

Right. Like can’t if, if they’re, if they’re. Going to be unproductive. Like why do we need to keep sipping for them? I’m okay with giving money to somebody who is making cool stuff with it that I may need one day, you know, like their missile defense system. The Vatican doesn’t have a missile defense system.

You know, this is the thing. If, if we were going into a, a, a war with vampires and I needed lots of holy water I’d be going to the Vatican, right? I’d be saying, Hey, we should probably ally with the Vatican. They’re really good at making holy water. But when I look at the future conflicts on our door, the groups that want us eradicated a lot of these groups are Islamists in Israel is [00:56:00] what the Vatican is to vampire invasion.

Israel is to Islamist invasion. They make a lot of things that are very good at both protecting you from and dealing with this particular threat which is a, a growing one on the global stage. And I, I I, the idea that they’re not useful as like a, a, a political or economic or technological partner is just like kind of ridiculous on face value if you are engaging with technology, right?

And this is US technology. Like, like you’re in the US and you have technology. That technology comes from, like either the United States, Japan, Korea, or Israel. Maybe Taiwan. And that’s really, that, that is that they’re the only places on earth that move technology forwards to a considerable degree.

You, you, you get some high tech [00:57:00] industries in other countries. Yeah. Okay. In China and in India and

to Europe that don’t really produce much new stuff. But if we’re talking about like active technological development Israel is one of the only places on earth where you’re actively seeing this. And since tech defines who controls the future of human civilization it matters that you’re friendly was the only productive technological person on earth that is at sustainable fertility rates.

Right. Because when I look at the other players on this list that I said were relevant, like Japan and Korea and Taiwan, they’re basically having their population every generation, right? Yeah. Yeah. But anyway,

Speaker 2: but to be fair, the, the highest fertility populations in Israel are not the also high tech producers

Malcolm Collins: in Israel.

Right. But even the high tech populations are above repopulation rate. Yeah. They’re doing well. And even our tech in the us, you know, who makes [00:58:00] this tech in the us? A lot of it is made by Jews. Mm. Right. Like even Nick Fuentes much realized if we did a pogrom in the US and we kicked out the Jews in our country, or even if we made the US a more of an enemy to Israel, the people who run all of these tech companies and often who are starting a lot of these tech companies, they would have a much less of a reason to ensure that the US continues to survive and thrive.

Mm-hmm. Right. Like that would be an actively, as I’ve said, I don’t trust the Jews to you know, care for us out of their own heart, but I trust the Jews to be able to see a pattern of the US helping Israel and say, Hey it is in our, the Jewish people’s best interest to help the United States thrive.

And this is one of those things where like Ben Shapiro goes out there and like, obviously he cares about Jewish interests above the interests of other people, but like that’s allowed. Right. Like, obviously Nick Fuentes cares about the interests of Catholics. Well, white Catholics is a narrow group that he believes he belongs to over, over other groups.

[00:59:00] Right. You know, I, I, I don’t, I don’t get why, why that’s like, not allowed. Like I, I care about my narrow community, the, the AOGs over other groups, you know, any, any techno.

Speaker 2: Oh, you just like what nerd, super nerds, autistic? No, no.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I call the AOGs the people who have sort of the same goals. The techno puritans, which is to continue to evolve human.

Okay. Mutual take to space. I iist the humans that will one day be augmented, right. Like, okay. Okay. That are okay. And engaging with various forms of human augmentation. Okay. I hate the word like transhumanist. I don’t think that that’s what we represent. You can see our video on this. It’s much more, yeah.

Well, and also like there are too many

Speaker 2: differing definitions of the, of the term or connotations associated with Yeah. I, I would say that

Malcolm Collins: transhumanist is, is sort of defined as a progressive pussy version of this. And the AOGs are the more like super soldier, darwin types. Mm-hmm. You know, you, you [01:00:00] specifically OG ideology is downstream of Nietzsche and ideology, which says that you know that, that you should strive to strengthen yourself and that immorality comes from weakness and that you should strive to strengthen yourself in whatever way you can, whether that’s genetically, technologically through anything.

And that if we allow humanity to enter into a discogenic spiral, which most of humanity is already within, see our video on is an idiocracy actually possible then we are merely worshiping weakness. And, and yeah. And there’s a lot of groups that don’t like the augs. Right. So, because I think most techno puritans would get along with any a, even if they didn’t have the techno puritan faith.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, I wanna go over and document the Vatican released in 2017. Oh, the Ecumenism of Hate. Oh this is a Vatican reviewed critique of US Conservative alliances. It was published in La Seia Alica, a Jesuit run journal whose content is pre-approved by the Vatican Secretary of State, making it [01:01:00] official sounding Vatican voice titled Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholicism in the United States.

A Surprising Ecumenism, God, this is so Catholic sounding. The piece was co-authored. It doesn’t really matter. But specifically it targeted the growing political alliance between conservative US Catholics, labeled Integralist and evangelical fundamentalists, particularly their support of Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign in early policies like immigration restrictions and walls.

The authors frame this as a quote, mansion, good versus evil, worldview promoting quote, xenophobic and Islamophobic visions in quote and a quote nostalgic dream of a theocratic type state in quote. So you know who they’re talking about, right? This is clearly Nick Fuentes that they are talking about here.

And they’re saying, we don’t support this. And not just Nick Fuentes, they’re saying. We do not support the faction of the Catholics [01:02:00] within the United States that have moved to support the MAGA alliance that have moved to support things like immigration restrictions that have moved to support. This is, this is what I talk about when I’m like the, the, the Vatican has a political interest, and Nick Fuentes ideology works only in so far as he either ignores their political interest is directly counter to our own political interests, or that he pretends like as a Catholic.

The, the core thing that separates him as a Catholic from a Protestant is the, the, the, the functions of the, the Catholic bureaucracy specifically , apostolic succession.

Malcolm Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: So, and I, and I note here, like, this is also like Francis, specifically called Trump’s deportations a, a disgrace calling it, you know, damaging dignity, right?

It’s not like. I am [01:03:00] twisting the Vatican’s words here. And like every Catholic who’s not just completely has their head in the sand knows, right? I think that there’s this hope that the Vatican is going to go in a different direction with time.

And I think what they fundamentally are ignoring is the history of how the Vatican got here. The Vatican didn’t get to this position because the Vatican did a turnaround and, and now has a different ideology. They did a turnaround. The Vatican has been pro-immigration since like forever, right? Like this isn’t a new thing in the Vatican.

The Vatican has been pro racial integration since forever. The Vatican has been the, the, you know, anti well, a Trump style nationalism forever. They’ve been anti-capitalism forever, right? Basically there’s a faction of Catholics in the US that have left whatever Catholics historically believed and.

Expect the Vatican to leave this wisdom. It’s not [01:04:00] really, and it’s, it is not to say that the Vatican hasn’t been captured by the Jesuits and they haven’t transformed the nature of the institution through this capture. It’s not to say that they aren’t actively, basically cheating in elections. We might do a whole thing in how the Jesuits sort of cheat and papal elections.

Speaker 2: Oh, really? That sounds interesting.

Malcolm Collins: They’ve done some shady stuff. Ooh. It was within the rules, but it was like against the spirit of the rules. Oh. But what I’m saying here is of like, if you believe that they’re cheating, then you’ve lost apostolic succession, because if bureaucracy is no longer functioning as intended mm-hmm.

Right? Like this is, this is where I, I don’t know, it just gets to me here, but to continue here. If, if we go further here on Trump’s deportations you have a direct quote in Francis’ letter. The rightly formed, conscious cannot fail to express its disagreement with any measure that identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality deportations damage the dignity of those people in places them in vulnerable and defenseless [01:05:00] positions.

So I’ll note here I, I shorten that quote, like I, I paraphrase parts of it. But specifically he says that you can’t. So if you’re a a, a Catholic in the United States, I know that you only have to obey the Pope when he does things from like a paper bull or it’s done within a council, but you are in direct rebellion to the pope’s will if you say something like it is, we are deporting them because they broke the law, right?

Like, like he is saying that you cannot to identify the illegal status of sub migrants as criminality that you, you can’t do that. You cannot define them as illegal for breaking the law, which is the core thing you need to be able to do to make the justification for the, the deportation that everything like that.

Mm-hmm. And I note here one of the things to remember with the Vatican, which is another reason why it’s incredibly foolish to attempt to ally with them is it’s not just that Catholics have an incredibly low fertility rate. All over the earth right now, you know? ‘cause we’ve talked about low Catholic fertility rates in whatever [01:06:00] country, whether it’s in Southern Europe or whether it’s in Latin America, or whether it’s white, the quote unquote white Catholics within the United States.

They also have an incredibly low population in their, their region of, of like the cultural center, right? Specifically Italy. Italy has a fertility rate of like 1.18 right now. Mm-hmm. And it’s continuing to crash. So for every a hundred Italians, there’s only gonna be 20 great grandchildren. So if this continues to crash and partially on Behe of the Vatican, Italy is accepting tons of migrants, which have a higher fertility rate.

The Vatican itself is going to be in a hostile sea. A a, a sea of. Individuals who may not agree with its policies. And that puts the rest of the v like the Catholic community in an incredibly dangerous position globally speaking. Because you don’t know the Vaticans being influenced or not, right?

Like, I mean, in a way right now, the, the Vaticans in a sea of urban monoculture and is certainly being influenced by that. What happens when it’s in a sea of Islamists, right? You’ve [01:07:00] already seen how much the Catholic church has moderated its view on Islam. And even you know, we, we also see this from Nick Fuentes because, you know, that’s where he, it’s getting its marching orders from where he’ll often take positions that seem actively directed towards empowering Islamist organizations and factions.

If he can use that to achieve. For, in his case negative conditions for the Jews. But in the Vatican’s case, and, and note he’ll be here, here, he’ll be like, oh, well we just we, the only reason we don’t want Iran to get a nuke is because they’ll use it on Israel. And it’s like, no, we don’t want ‘em to have a nuke because after Israel, they use it on us.

Right? Like, if you are willing to allow Iran to get in nuke, just despite Israel, you have put the United States in an incredibly worse diplomatic position. This is what I mean when I’m like, he’s willing to throw the United States under the bus if he can’t spite Israel.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That campaign was incredibly cheap for us, by the way.

And we paid very little in terms of diplomatic cost for doing that with Israel. And [01:08:00] Israel also helped us a lot with that. Right? So that was one of our major objectives for a long time as well. It is like he thinks that the only reason these countries have a beef with us is because we support Israel.

And it’s like, no, they, they want global Sharia law in the same way you want to globally convert everyone to Catholicism one day, right? Like, they, they, they actually are antagonistic, but the Catholic Vatican, when they’re trying to promote Islamist agendas or create sort of interfaith dialogue there what’s funny.

Like interface dialogue doesn’t seem to really exist. I heard somebody say this to me and they’re like, it’s so true. Mm-hmm. When you have a bunch of preachers doing interface dialogue, they’re typically all urban monoculture and they’re not actually like strong believers. Oh.

Speaker 2: So it’s mono faith dialogue with different costumes.

Malcolm Collins: Mono. But, but the reason why they’re doing this is, I think smartly so is they know that they’re not maybe eventually that they’re gonna be in a, a Muslim majority region. Mm-hmm. And they’re going to need to deal with that. Right? Like, they’re going to need to appease their, their new rulers and [01:09:00] really the only force that could possibly prevent this.

They’re making, well, Dick Fuentes is making an enemy of which again, yeah. The Catholic church now is basically, ah, I’ve got the vampires. We’re, we’re, we’re pro vampire actually. But I wanna now talk about the Catholic revolutions in Latin America. Oh. Oh, by the way, fun side note, did you know that one of the Lincoln assassins hid at the Vatican?

And there is a common myth that the Vatican helped him hide, but it actually didn’t. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. So, just fun historical side note here. Lincoln assassin, John Wilkes booth at Ford Cedar and Mary Surro, devout Catholic boarding house owner convicted as co-conspirator and hanged on July 7th.

John Stewart Jr. A Confederate fly fled to Canada hidden by Catholic priest. So he was actually hidden by the larger Catholic bureaucracy at first. Because remember for most of US history, the US and the Catholic church we’re not like, now the Vatican is sort of like, Hey, we hate the us and, and the US is like.

Well, we are gonna try to get along with [01:10:00] everyone, but back then it was more like, oh yeah, we hate you too. Don’t send any Catholics. But anyway so, so, he was sheltered in Liverpool at a Catholic church. And then December, 1865, he arrives in Rome and he enlists in Pope Pius the ninths papals swabs of volunteer army defending the Vatican versus Italian unification.

And, and his alias was John Watson. And then he was spotted by a un diplomat wild by the way. Right. And the Vatican arrests him, but on the post orders. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And

Malcolm Collins: he was exed to the United States where he was actually had the charges dropped at a mistrial.

Speaker 2: Oh, wow. So

Malcolm Collins: fun, fun. Historic tidbit there.

Speaker 2: Well, he went through a wild ride.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay. So let’s, let’s go through the Catholic because this is what I, I, I said that, that Alate the more broadly, has largely been an anti-capitalist force. They’ve written for like tracks against capitalism.

[01:11:00] For examples of these, you could look to Pope Leo the thirteens 1891, , in, in, uh, Reno, Nova Room, , which was specifically an anti-capitalist sort of scree. , And then we have, , more recently, , Pope Francis who has gone on, , squeeze about the idolatry of money. , And, . In these 2020, and I, I don’t know, these, these foreign words, , if titled, TUI Tui Francis expanded on these ideas lamenting how market capitalism fails to promote fraternity or resolve problems like poverty and hunger.

And I note here that the church has every right to be anti-capitalist. It aligns with their historic positions. It aligns with their larger value systems. Capitalism has not worked out particularly well in, uh, Catholic majority countries. Uh, so why, why, why [01:12:00] shouldn’t they be allowed to have this view?

But. I can also admit when it is, you know, in, in conflict with my interests, my views, and my people’s, , way of life. Because when capitalism has been tried in Protestant countries, it typically works out pretty well. , What I don’t like is when people. Basically try to launder what the larger Vatican agenda is and pretend that it doesn’t have a agenda that is in contrast with capitalism, freedom of speech.

Well, I suppose Nick Fuentes would even admit he doesn’t really want freedom of speech either. He doesn’t particularly want freedom of ideas either. He just wants it controlled by his faction.

Mm-hmm. They’re not pro atheist communism, but there have been large, especially within the Jesuit order active organizations of socialist and communist revolutions.

So we have Nicaragua 1979 Revolution. We have Fernando Caro, who is a Jesuit, Ernest Caro Jesuit ties and mi Miguel de [01:13:00] Esto who, who was also in the Jesuit order orbit. So, they recruited Catholics to FSL in gorillas, taught Marxism as Christian in base communities, supplied food and ammo priest Joann RA government culture, foreign ministers although the Pope did put a ban on this.

So, so, the, the, this was the case in which the Pope was like, okay, you guys need to stop this, please. But anyway the Sardis Incorporated quote, political capitalism in quote, using churches as organizing cells, EG the Paris replaced linen cell one leader that this was a quote that they talked about here within this order.

One leader Miguel de Escar was a MC Nolan priest. Liberation Theology justified the armored overthrow of Samoa’s government post-revolution hymns praised worker Christ alongside Sino and Che Evaro, direct quote. Carlos Fka, FSLN, founder Sano is deeply rooted [01:14:00] in Christianity as an extension of Catholicism.

So, churches distributed version Mary icons with sista portraits. Oh Columbia 1965 to 66. Camilla Torres left the priesthood to join the ELN gorillas and said, quote, Jesus equals gorilla. Ro ELN. Ideology mixes Marxism Leninism with Catholic martyrdom, eeg, no drug trade due to Catholic morals.

Then El Salvador, 1980 to 1992. Civil War. Ignacio Rio and the UCA Jesuits were the brains behind the FMLN per army. And they ran liberation zones in quote by the way, led to 75,000 people dead. Mm-hmm. So these weren’t like small things. Guatemala in 1960s to 96 multiple Jesuit, U-U-R-N-G gorillas, organized peasant based communities into fighters and then had a genocide.

Was 200,000 people dead Chile, [01:15:00] Christians for socialism. And ada. 1970 to 19 73, 80 plus priests formed the group of 80 supporting Salvador ADA’s socialist government, quote, Christians for socialism. 1971, allied with communists, seeing socialism as gospel fulfillment pen’s, 1973 coup targeted them.

Direct quote group. Declaration quote, we declare our option for socialism as a way to build the kingdom of God.

Speaker 2: No. Okay. I mean, but is this just, these are examples of the Catholic Church supporting socialist political movements. Surely there are also examples that I could cherry pick of the Catholic church supporting broadly capitalist leaders, or, no.

The Catholic

Malcolm Collins: Church has done and I can pull this up in post, they’ve written like tracks specifically attacking capitalism.

Malcolm Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: They’ve written now, now they would say that what they are attacking is the more like, like materialistic form of capitalism. Yeah. Which I would also but they, they, they certainly don’t [01:16:00] follow Puritan capitalism, which is, you know, I think the true and correct way of practicing capitalism, which is capitalism without charity and without luxury you can see our That’s true.

Yeah. Charities

Speaker 2: is big in

Malcolm Collins: Catholicism. And, and they, but they have also written tracks condemning communism, just, just to be aware even though sometimes, you know, communists spin out. And I note here when people are like, oh, well this or that communist leader was Jewish. True, but. They do something that the Catholics don’t do, typically if the communist leaders have Jewish backgrounds, which is they then go around and try to kill Jews.

And so they’re obviously not, you know, fighting for a Jewish agenda. Like when, when you know, the communists came to power in Russia. The Jews were one of the first on their lists of, you know, they don’t like when some groups outcompete other groups and the Jews are out competing a group, which is one of the reasons why they were, I I actually point out here, there was analysis done.

We talk about this in another episode, but if you look at the amount that Jews disproportionately get into politics, so if you look in the United [01:17:00] States, obviously, like Jews are disproportionately win at politics and get into politics. And you look at this cross country, so you can find like an average disproportionate Jewish amount in politics.

Mm-hmm. And then you look at communist governments, specifically like communist Russia. Jews win. Contrasted with their portion of the population and their typical overrepresentation was in politics are actually represented at a much lower rate than you would expect. So even though they’re overrepresented versus the population, they are underrepresented When contrasted Wiz, and I note here, like the Marx wrote entire tracks about how we needed to get rid of all the Jews.

Mm-hmm. I, I forgot the name of the track, but it was pretty explicit really, like it was in the title. Yeah. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll look it up ‘cause I, this will surprise you. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: What was the name of Marx’s anti-Jewish book?

Malcolm Collins: It was called On the Jewish Question.

Speaker 2: Oh boy. Okay. Are fine. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: He linked [01:18:00] Judaism with Hucksterism, an obsession with capitalism, commercialism, and money.

Speaker 2: Well, not exactly shockingly unique, Tay. Well, no, but what I’m

Malcolm Collins: saying is it’s not exactly a friend to communism. No, no. Wrong.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So what I’m putting out here is, and why would they be, sorry. It actually makes no sense that Jews would want communism. I just want people to actually think through this for five seconds.

Speaker 2: Well, I

Malcolm Collins: don’t

Speaker 2: know. Kibbutzim are pretty

Malcolm Collins: fricking like, right, but they do that only with other Jews, which is hugely different. Right. So consider that you are a population living within in a diverse, you can’t

Speaker 2: try communism as it is theoretically understood at a grand scale without some post singularity society.

Right. I understand that. But.

Malcolm Collins: Even if communism quote unquote worked. Mm-hmm. Jewish people wouldn’t want it. Why wouldn’t they want it? Okay. Think about this. Think about this. Okay? You are part of a group that whenever you are in a capitalist [01:19:00] country, whether it’s Australia or the United States or Germany, you end up much wealthier and was much more power than other groups.

The very last thing you would want is wealth redistribution. Okay? Like especially if you’re thinking intergenerationally. Now we do point out, oh, well what about the kids of rich families? Why are they more likely to become communists? This is different. These kids aren’t thinking intergenerationally in the way that somebody trying to plot out like a Jewish control of society.

Jews are always intrinsically gonna have more control within a capitalist system, which means if you favor capitalism, you also have an intrinsic. Parallelism of interest with Jewish organizations and with Jewish forces, and you are going to be much more to have a, a direct conflict of interest with Catholic forces.

Because again, Catholics have historically promoted socialism and, and immigration waves and mass sort of charity organizations and stuff like that. Hmm. But anyway, thoughts Simone, [01:20:00]

Speaker 2: just, wow. This has been a lot, but I also, and it’s not necessarily updating my views that much on Catholicism because the Catholics with with whom we interact are so divorced from all this.

Malcolm Collins: Right. They’re divorced from it. And I think that that can lead us to forget that the Vatican. Has actively stated hostile intent to the United States, specifically the MAGA movement.

Speaker 2: So you’re just trying to say like, there is this group over here.

Malcolm Collins: Don’t forget. Well, what I’m trying to say is when you try to frame things along Fuentes lines, which is choose between the Catholics and the Jews, right?

Mm-hmm. What he’s forgetting is the Catholics don’t all think like him, and the Catholics in power who have the final say in what the Catholic, the official

Speaker 2: Catholics. Yeah. Like if aliens arrived on Earth and were like, what do Catholics think? Yeah. They’re gonna go to the Pope, right? Yeah, that’s right.

That’s right.

Malcolm Collins: [01:21:00] He’s, he’s, he’s forgetting or covering up or trying to hide that. In actuality, the Catholic central bureaucracy is quite hostile to the United States in our interests. Mm-hmm. And that. We work with Catholics insofar as those Catholics aren’t towing that line. Yeah. And that when he’s like, well, you either need to like, and, and with Israel, while Israel has done some DBA moves in the past, they’re ultimately as a population growing, technologically productive and economically productive group, a much smarter, long-term ally,

Speaker 2: tactical ally.

Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that the, this view lacks pragmatism and that there’s this very ideologically based objection to Israel when Israel should be looked at as a tactical ally rather than an ideological partner.

Malcolm Collins: [01:22:00] Yes. As I said, it’s like partnering with the dwarves. Right. Like they got their whole own thing going on.

Okay. You don’t need to, just don’t get in the book of grudges. Okay. And, and when you’re, you’re, you’re partnering with the That’s what I was reading that line. I was like, it’s so Catholic. That’s why I always put the Catholic at the elves. Right. Because, you know, very, everything’s covered in gold.

Everything’s, you know, ordained, ordinated, everything. The best outfits. Yeah. You know, they’re doing their speeches, they make them like super long and academic and florid. And you’re just like, oh my God. And the, and the ceremonies. Ceremonies for everything. You know, you got the, like with the elves, it’ll be like the autumn, whatever, ceremony of the ceremony of whatever leaves.

And with the Catholic, they got the ceremony for this and the ceremony for that. And I guess if we’re putting ourselves in the fantasy races, what are we gnomes you know, typically seen as technologically obsessed and otherwise pragmatic and overly excitable and happy. I think that that works.

Not, not very interested in, in money like the, the dwarves are, [01:23:00] or, or overt ornamentation that the elves are, or

Speaker 2: Tolkien orcs that are just, you know, elves tortured to a, a point of abstraction. Transhuman extremely strong and very industrious. No, I don’t know. Like, I, I, I think

Malcolm Collins: could we all know who the Orks are?

And it’s not black people by the way.

Speaker 2: It was supposed to be Mongolians, right?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I we’re ta I’m talking in my analogy. Oh, not in Tolkien’s analogy.

Speaker 2: Okay. They are who, who were they in your analog? I

Malcolm Collins: don’t Semetic people who were tortured and transformed through. Look, we don’t, we don’t need to go through this.

Nobody wants you to, to. What I’m saying is, is that the, the orcs don’t much like the gnomes existing, they don’t much like the elves existing and they don’t much like the dwarfs existing. And we have a reason to work together, and that’s what I would ultimately push for, is to not say, choose the, choose the dwarves over the elves.

It’s [01:24:00] to say that the elves need to get over their anti dwarf thing so we can all work together. Because if you say, if anyone’s out there saying, Hey, you can’t choose one of these factions as one of your allies. And this is of course where the modern conservative movement is, like Catholics are a vast minority within the United States population.

They’re around 20% and rapidly shrinking. As we said, they’re shrinking in terms of deconversions, in, in terms of fertility rates. And so like they need to form alliances with other groups for this to work. And we need to accept that we’re gonna have differences in perspectives, but that we are different.

What I really hate that Nick Tis does is he pretends like Catholics and Protestants are like some shared identity. And I find that to be really like gaslighting and. Weird because they aren’t, they are. You literally burned my actual direct ancestors alive. Like we, we actually have like a book of martyr on like the shelf of every restroom in our [01:25:00] house, you know, is like reading for our kids as they grow up, right?

Like, these are things you, these, these, these are not the same people. The Jews didn’t do that to my ancestors. Okay. Like there’s a reason there’s suspicion here. Anyway,

Speaker 2: there you have it. Oh my god, thank you. This has been interesting edifying.

Malcolm Collins: No, but I think, I think we can all get along while still admitting like, I may not like some Alfie things and I may not like some, we’ve done some episodes that we’ve gotten a lot of, oh, that’s anti-Semitic.

I might not like some dwarfy things, but I can still work with them and see the benefits of working together.

Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. You know, we’re pro pluralism and it’s not gonna change. That’s all there is to it.

I.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I think they’re both wool too, so she matching these days. Hey, I love it. I gotta have a, [01:26:00] a CAD wife ette. It’s gotta go for the real fascist look. You know? I gotta scare the well I used to be like fascist, but like World War ii and now we’re like fascist, but like Prussian war maybe it’s giving, giving kind of Bismarck era.

Can’t believe that name pulled so poorly when we thought about naming one of our kids. Bismark. Yeah. You’re gonna name one of our kids, Bismarck. And just people did not like it. Yeah. Also did not like Tana, which was one of the names we were gonna choose. And that’s where Tex came from. Yeah, maybe just text polls better.

Speaker 12: All right. Attack. I don’t wanna see any survivors. Take him down.[01:27:00]

Speaker 13: You want me to come in and attack you? Yeah.

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